Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Riots against lockdown in Europe

818 replies

Downriver · 25/01/2021 09:27

The scenes of young people burning down a COVID testing facility in the Netherlands and burning the Danish PM at a stake in protest against lockdown have really shaken me. Would it happen here? Who is organising this? Fascists? Sometimes I read comments against lockdown on here and I think such a mood is being primed.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
truthisalie · 26/01/2021 10:35

Can someone explain to me, how do we know the vaccines help if the vaccinated still need to wear masks? Vaccinated people can still catch the virus and transmit it and that's why masks are still strongly advised.

truthisalie · 26/01/2021 10:54

Reading old articles from 2018 there were more than 50,000 deaths as a result of flu in England Wales in 2017/18. 50,000 is quite a lot but I don't remember there was any panic about it. Schools didn't close although some countries close schools for quarantine during high flu season. Interesting how it was last year. Some people say that because if masks we don't catch flue that easily anymore but is it really true?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-46399090
There were around 50,100 excess winter deaths in England and Wales in 2017-18 - the highest since the winter of 1975-76, figures from the Office for National Statistics show
Despite more people over 65 getting a flu jab, the vaccine was more effective in younger people and could explain why flu had a greater impact on elderly people, the ONS said.

This year, it is hoped that an enhanced flu vaccine for elderly people should perform better.

The ONS said the increases could also be explained partly by colder weather and lower temperatures, compared with the five-year average, in December, February and March.

More than a third of the excess deaths were caused by respiratory diseases, such as pneumonia.

tinselearedcow · 26/01/2021 11:08

truthisalie the novel (key word) coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 and seasonal flu are two very different beasts, you are comparing apples with oranges.

Chookie89 · 26/01/2021 11:09

@hamstersarse you don't say.

Has it occurred to you that sponsoring a vaccine would in fact allow 'those people [who] want to be able to put their own food on the table, not rely on the Other? How about those people want to prove themselves in their jobs and move up the pay grade?'

How the actual fuck did you make my comment about loathsome greed of the top 10 billionaires in the world, an issue of ideology and identity politics?

Get a brain. And a moral compass.

Chookie89 · 26/01/2021 11:11

honestly @hamstersarse your poor-bashing is disgusting.

Most of us do enjoy working from the bottom up, and contributing to society. That doesn't prohibit me from giving a shit about the fact a small number of people hoard vast amounts of wealth at the expense of most others.

FFS.

VinylDetective · 26/01/2021 11:32

@tinselearedcow

truthisalie the novel (key word) coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 and seasonal flu are two very different beasts, you are comparing apples with oranges.
You’re not if you’re comparing death rates.
Chookie89 · 26/01/2021 11:41

@hopsalong 'I can't think of any moral or ethical system that asserts that people should save other people's lives in profound contradiction of their own happiness, perhaps even their own life, without an ultimate value or principle being asserted.'

I wonder if you've heard of the trans-Atlantic slave trade?

Xenia · 26/01/2021 11:49

People just take different views on all these things. Yet we all should just try to get along in a very difficult time. To save children and help women we need to remove the mandatory CV19 legislation in my view and that is for the greater good.

peak2021 · 26/01/2021 12:14

The riots in the Netherlands seem to be about specific changes only just introduced including a curfew. Mark Rutte's government has just resigned owing to a non-Covid related issue.

The Netherlands is not all nice and calm politically, as the support for the PVV led by Geert Wilders shows (nasty hatred Islamophobic).

hamstersarse · 26/01/2021 12:54

@Chookie89

honestly *@hamstersarse* your poor-bashing is disgusting.

Most of us do enjoy working from the bottom up, and contributing to society. That doesn't prohibit me from giving a shit about the fact a small number of people hoard vast amounts of wealth at the expense of most others.

FFS.

You sound incredibly resentful of people who have a lot of money. Why does it bother you so much?

You could do it if it bothers you? Set up the next Amazon?

GrannyRose15 · 26/01/2021 12:57

[quote trulydelicious]@MamaMary

No one, especially on Mumsnet, seems to care! Let's just wipe our all our democratic rights

Why do people keep going about this. They are temporary measures to control infection[/quote]
Income tax was a temporary measure brought in to fund the Napoleonic wars.
Temporary measures have a habit of becoming permanent.

GrannyRose15 · 26/01/2021 13:06

hopsalong Tue 26-Jan-21 00:06:01

Very good post. Wish i could put it so eloquently.

GrannyRose15 · 26/01/2021 13:18

umpteennamechanges Tue 26-Jan-21 00:16:13

I didn't say anything of the sort. I asked you to think about where the democracy and freedoms you have benefitted from all your life have come from. They didn't just happen. They came about because people in this country have been prepared to die for what they believe in. If they hadn't, you would have had a far harder less privileged life.

Had I been asked in March if I was prepared to put my life at risk (and I guess because of my age my life is more at risk than yours) in order to save the freedoms of my grandchildren I would have said yes - leave the schools, shops, businesses open, carry on with your lives, my life is not worth the sacrifice of your livelihoods. But I wasn't given that choice.

feelingquitehopeful · 26/01/2021 13:23

The Netherlands are very anti EU in some places - it is not reported very often but it is never far from the surface. The EU have messed up the vaccine procurement, additionally the Dutch government have been so slow to roll the vaccine out.
The government collapsed last week due to a corruption scandal and curfews have overtones of martial law.

It is no wonder the place is in meltdown. People have had enough.
We spend around nine weeks a year there every year for five years due to work commitments, and my experience of the Dutch people is nothing but positive. They are calm and lovely in the main, and the very opposite of over emotional, so things must be bad for this to happen.

MarshaBradyo · 26/01/2021 13:24

If we were at 770k and eg Germany on 6-7m I think I’d go a bit spare too

LastTrainEast · 26/01/2021 13:25

GrannyRose15 You think long after covid has been defeated/mutated into harmlessness we will be getting announcements of Covid lockdowns?

And I suppose the government will be forcing money into the hands of people to stay at home too? Because a Tory government secretly wants to give away money right?

What would their motive be? Is if something to do with the Queen being a lizard?

MarieIVanArkleStinks peaceful protest in the UK is still possible. You just have to take precautions so as not to spread a disease deadly to many. Why would you want to infect people? No one has really explained that part.

Oh and not smash shop windows to get a new TV. Riots and looting have always been illegal. Though I do understand that a protest without violence is a bit boring.

tatutata · 26/01/2021 13:26

I do not support violence and property damage for any reason. But peaceful protest is a right we should have. It should be quite possible to organise with safety measures, as is that case in Germany. Those "protests" that crossed into violent disorder were policed and the ringleaders of the violence were arrested, as they should be. It is also worth reflecting on the risks police officers run at these events. None of these caveats should remove the right to protest. And I think as @hopsalong points out in her thought provoking posts, there are so many contradictions arising from lockdown that it's certainly worth making our voices heard.
I also can't imagine a tory government imposing these measures for fun, but I swear the authoritarian nutters under Priti Patel are enjoying this. Telling us coffee kills, that was the point at which I really worried about how the he'll we'll ever wrest control from that maniac.

tatutata · 26/01/2021 13:27

Stupid phone typos!

tatutata · 26/01/2021 13:34

@MaxNormal

Just another excuse to push a globalist agenda. No thanks.

Compassion extends as far as the border then stops abruptly. Noted.

Yep... Spot the brexit voter !
hamstersarse · 26/01/2021 13:41

@GrannyRose15

My mum is 79. Not her or any of her friends, siblings or acquaintances wanted schools and businesses shut down. Neither did they want to catch the virus so have basically been shielding for coming to to a year.

Yet we’ve all assumed that is what the older generation wanted and expected - to shut everything down?

Most people by the time they are 70 accept mortality, and like lord sumption the other day stated, that it’s time to prioritise the young.

It’ll come to us all, so there is no awfulness in what I say. You get old and you die...of something you didn’t particularly want to die of...coronavirus, flu, dementia, cancer, an endless list...none are particularly nice.

trulydelicious · 26/01/2021 13:43

@tatutata

Telling us coffee kills

How can you twist what she said in such a ridiculous way? It's worrying

trulydelicious · 26/01/2021 13:45

@MaxNormal

You can be compassionate and retain control. I'd rather do this than be at the mercy of a bunch of globalist maniacs

hopsalong · 26/01/2021 13:48

@Chookie89

What has the (obviously grotesque) transatlantic slave trade got to do with it? Of course it wasn't founded on moral principle!

Try to read what people are actually saying. Can you think of any moral system (e.g. religion, philosophical argument) that argues that people are required to save someone else's life at extreme cost to themselves?

Don't we usually single people who do that out, as heroes? Some of us might jump out in front of a bus to save a child we didn't know. But no moral code I know of demands that. (Conscription in war is different. War isn't about trading one life for another and putting yourself second; we fight wars to win then, and justifiable wars are fought to protect basic principles (justice, democracy, not violating human rights) that we want to see endure.)

In the old world, I sometimes used to see apparently serious car or cycling accidents on my way to work. Passers-by often didn't even both to stop, even though it would only made them a few minutes late and they might have made a really significant difference. I once stopped to help a cyclist who was knocked off his bike and thrown (very luckily) across a major crossing, but who landed (no helmet) and cracked his head. I realized when I did that I'd forgotten to charge my phone. Eventually someone else came over and offered theirs. But most people didn't do anything.

I would argue that one's duty to stop in that situation outweighs (limited number of actors, highly time sensitive, potentially fatal injury, physical involvement as a witness, minimal sacrifice) vastly outweighs the duty to 'stay at home to save lives' (messy problem, chronic situation, clear individual and collective sacrifices). But obviously most people don't agree with me.

tatutata · 26/01/2021 13:51

@trulydelicious yes, sorry. "Don't let a coffee cost lives", and the context was meeting one friend outside for a coffee. Really twisted things there, didn't I!

GrannyRose15 · 26/01/2021 14:41

[quote hamstersarse]@GrannyRose15

My mum is 79. Not her or any of her friends, siblings or acquaintances wanted schools and businesses shut down. Neither did they want to catch the virus so have basically been shielding for coming to to a year.

Yet we’ve all assumed that is what the older generation wanted and expected - to shut everything down?

Most people by the time they are 70 accept mortality, and like lord sumption the other day stated, that it’s time to prioritise the young.

It’ll come to us all, so there is no awfulness in what I say. You get old and you die...of something you didn’t particularly want to die of...coronavirus, flu, dementia, cancer, an endless list...none are particularly nice.[/quote]
Absolutely. It's a pity nobody asked us if we wanted the country to shut down to save us. Many would have said "no".

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.

Swipe left for the next trending thread