Riots against lockdown in Europe

[Downriver]

The scenes of young people burning down a COVID testing facility in the Netherlands and burning the Danish PM at a stake in protest against lockdown have really shaken me. Would it happen here? Who is organising this? Fascists? Sometimes I read comments against lockdown on here and I think such a mood is being primed.

@umpteennamechanges

How can you 'absolutely guarantee' what your great grandfather would have thought? Just curious.

As I said, I'm not going to organise a riot. I'm no keyboard warrior, either. I'm just an average busy middle-class middle-aged woman with small children and too much work and I feel strongly about this issue. No one would come to my riot, even if I knew how to organise one, because I'm a massively uncompelling riot leader. But I'd still go to one, if it were principled and peaceful. There's no contradiction.

Umpteennamechanges
One thing that I've never fully understood is that if this were just about saving lives there's lots of freedoms/money/priveliges we could always have given up to save lives. What's a little personal. Inconvenience for enforced blood donation/caps on bank accounts to divert money to those who can't afford to feed their families in other countries/community service etc etc. Not saying I disagree that lives should be saved. Just why these lives and not all the others we could have given up freedom and autonomy for in the past.

@VinylDetective

Still plugging away *@trulydelicious*? You’re becoming more of a lone voice with every passing day.

I’m starting to think they’re a government bot account.

Hopsalong
I do agree with you on the displacement of risk. If you've got money you can effectively choose to pay other people to take covid risks for you. Really interesting point

@MamaMary

Why do people keep going about this. They are temporary measures to control infection

Don't be naive. Don't be complacent.

They've been temporary for a very long time. And there's no end point in sight.

Learn from history. These things always start. as a temporary measure in response to a national emergency. But sometimes temporary becomes permanent.

I’ve read through 23 of 25 pages. I haven’t commented so far because I’m really bloody torn on everything.

I’m not going to go in-depth, but basic summary is - I completely understand the anger re schools, the younger generation, industries held to ransom, people trying to hold down jobs along with homeschooling. On the other hand, I get that letting things rip isn’t the best course of action, that we are progressing really well with the rollout of the vaccine and that, whichever route anyone WANTS, the NHS only has enough capacity/staff for a certain limit of admissions.

What I’m getting pissed off at is this assumption that all the restrictions are a covert way of removing our rights and freedoms. It’s a blooming Tory government - I’m being very basic in what I say, but I don’t believe their party line is that they want to control the population and remove our rights.

I’m adhering for now - because I believe that getting infection/hospital admissions down along with getting vaccination numbers up is the best way to gradually move us out of this situation.

And I think the keyword there is “gradually”. There were already indications back in March last year that this would be a rolling situation. There was no “it will only be 3 weeks to flatten the curve”. Advice back then was that it would hit again come autumn/winter.

So, I’m “accepting” for now, but damn sure I’m keeping an eye on those liberties being returned. And I will happily protest (not riot) if not.

But this “complacent” thing is confusing - as IMO its not what a Tory government (that i don’t support) wants.

I’m useless at quoting just a line from a post, but the “where are the riots, I’m not going to start one but I’d join one” has pretty much finished off my insomnia for the night.

Protests - I can completely understand (yes, I’m aware of the “laws” currently). But those on here who have actively applauded riots, I just can’t comprehend. WTF is the point of looting/burning medical facilities? And it won’t stop at those buildings. Moving on to buildings and businesses that have been hit hardest by the restrictions already.

Advocating protests is not an issue. But the amount of people endorsing riots has really shocked me.

As a general consensus, which country’s approach is one that you’d like to adopt right now? Am honestly not wanting to be goady - I really would like to see how else things could be handled. Because I think we’re doing pretty well right now to push through the vaccination groups and it will (slowly) start to make a difference.

I think this is the real story that liberterians, conservatives and the 'left' alike should be uniting behind:

'Wealth increase of 10 men during pandemic could buy vaccines for all'

www.bbc.com/news/world-55793575

It would be great if we could stop blaming other poor and middle class people for our problems, when a small group of people in this world with obscene wealth are doing fucking amazingly out of this situation.

Why are we so desperate to get back to work in a shitty low paid job during a deadly pandemic, when the 1% have the spare dosh to vaccinate everyone? Plus do more?

Can we start marching about this please?

@carlaCox

In all seriousness though, I don't know why fascists would be organising this, they tend to be quite supportive of state controls. I think people are fed up of being held under house arrest for the best part of a year. People have lost their jobs, their homes, they've had the joy sucked out of life, it's not surprising really.

Exactly!! How could OP suggest it’s fascists who are AGAINST government restrictions?!!! Lol

@hopsalong

No one would come to my riot.... But I'd still go to one, if it were principled and peaceful

They are burning down buildings and people's effigies. There's nothing peaceful about these extremists (who most on this thread seem to support so casually)

@MyHeartIsNeverOnTime

I’m starting to think they’re a government bot account

Believe whatever makes you like. I don't care

Whatever you like, I mean

@Downriver

UK tends to have riots in the Summer, historically. But it is the fact it is young people that interests me. It is not those under massive stress of wfh and homeschooling etc. I just want to know the demographic, the motives, whether the Q people have got into their heads.

People homeschooling and WFH have much higher risk if they are spotted and get a criminal record, are older, which is highly correlated with a lower appetite for risk, and are too busy to get involved.

Unemployed young people has been a recipe for riots (and revolution) throughout history.

@umpteennamechanges

Nearly 100,000 dead with lockdowns and restrictions.

This repetition of the death rate is disingenuous. What is most important is the excess death because (to repeat another phrase albeit a slightly more unpalatable one) many of those 100,000 would have died anyway because people do die regardless.

It’s hard to know exactly what the excess deaths were last year but it’s somewhere around 20,000.

The question is whether what we are doing is proportionate to that number of deaths. 20,000 is a lot...but this is a pandemic.

Does it warrant the situation for children? Does it warrant the destruction of entire industries?

Hard to say, and often the answer comes down to your own personal attitude towards life and death

@Chookie89

I think this is the real story that liberterians, conservatives and the 'left' alike should be uniting behind:

'Wealth increase of 10 men during pandemic could buy vaccines for all'

www.bbc.com/news/world-55793575

It would be great if we could stop blaming other poor and middle class people for our problems, when a small group of people in this world with obscene wealth are doing fucking amazingly out of this situation.

Why are we so desperate to get back to work in a shitty low paid job during a deadly pandemic, when the 1% have the spare dosh to vaccinate everyone? Plus do more?

Can we start marching about this please?

^this^^

@Chookie89 and @Ridcully82

It is incredibly patronising to say to people who have "shitty low paid jobs" that they shouldn't want to go back to work.

How about those people want to be able to put their own food on the table, not rely on the Other? How about those people want to prove themselves in their jobs and move up the pay grade?

Instead, you want to remove them completely from the ability to be a human and do the things that people do to survive in the world and turn them into victims.

No I don't @hamstersarse:I'd like people not to need universal credit when they work full time to look after themselves,and their families.

@Tryingtryingandtrying I was thinking about it this morning. If we truly want this pandemic over we should be vaccinating the elderly and vulnerable globally before younger and healthier people get the vaccine.
I wonder how all of those screaming about altruism would take it if they were behind the in queue globally. I daresay the altruism would fly out the window.
As it is we are starting to see an unseemly scrabble from the wealthiest countries for vaccine supplies.

LOL are we still going on about this? The Rise of the Mums 🤭💐

Some people need to calm down and set an example for their DC in how to not be a K*n

@MaxNormal

If we truly want this pandemic over we should be vaccinating the elderly and vulnerable globally before younger and healthier people get the vaccine

Just another excuse to push a globalist agenda. No thanks.

I don't think in the UK where we are ahead of others with vaccines we should be vaccinating the globe elderly /BAME/sick first particularly as obese people and those with low vit D ie the UK worst country on the planet for this virus is not something that affects every country in the same way.

Money and freedom are not the same. lots of people have very little money 1 in 4 does not have a penny of savings even in the UK but they want the right to leave the house without having to check the law. Hopefully the vaccination programme will mean we can remove every one of the restrictions except perhaps travel bans into the UK/Ireland next month and if not then before Easter., In the meantime lots of British people do not support the mandatory measures but follow them but if it is morally wrong to have the measures in place then people have to do that difficult balance between conscience and direct action and obeying the law. It is not as hard as for someone who thinks abortion is murder being required to carry them out so most of us are just sucking it up, letting more die of mental health issues to save older people who would rather the young were saved anyway. Luckily we are still free to express an anti-lockdown view in the UK.

Just another excuse to push a globalist agenda. No thanks.

Compassion extends as far as the border then stops abruptly. Noted.

Lots of anti-lockdown sentiment on here but in reality poll after poll after poll has shown a vast majority support lockdown and actually feel that the restrictions have been too little, too late

I wouldn't want to call it either way, but do people really not realise by now that "polls" can be organised to produce whatever result's wanted - or even be just plain wrong?

After all it's happened often enough ...

Polls aren’t great. It’s the MP votes that count - they represent constituents

It's interesting how I or anyone I know never receive any surveys. So I call those polls sucked out of the finger.