Riots against lockdown in Europe

[Downriver]

The scenes of young people burning down a COVID testing facility in the Netherlands and burning the Danish PM at a stake in protest against lockdown have really shaken me. Would it happen here? Who is organising this? Fascists? Sometimes I read comments against lockdown on here and I think such a mood is being primed.

@Jsnn

Fascist has just become this catch all racist term to use to label any group of white people who do something you don't agree with politically. It's messed up because real fascism is evil and it dilutes the meaning.

I think people have just had enough as already has been said. Especially young people who are essentially losing a year of their life and risk screwing up their future because the government can't figure out how to shield elderly people from a virus that has an average victim age of 83 years old.

Excellent post.

@HmmSureJan

I don't believe it's fascists at all. Far more likely the far left taking advantage of the current dissatisfaction to push their Marxist agenda.

Ding ding ding! Correct answer.

@MarshaBradyo

It's bollocks that everyone is booking holidays. I wish they were! I am looking at empty calendars for the whole of 2021. The one couple due to come at Easter have now rescheduled for April 2022.

Where are you? U.K. or Europe / other

UK.

It's a complete nightmare, and it goes on and on and on.

I think Curfews are bad as they smack of martial law
If they “Do nothing” then why have they been brought in?

I love slipping out into early dawn, still dark, for exercise.. as do others.
The thought of it not being allowed is crazy.

The pressure on green spaces is HUGE now.
Ban the night walkers/ runners/riders and mote pressure on daylight times.

I never thought I would amend friendships for politics but being pro-lockdown or wanting tighter restrictions is such a huge clash of values for me. They don't care about the damage to their children or parents. It's astonishing

Same here, @LunaHeather

I couldn't be arsed anyway. As a PP said, it's too cold and all my energy goes on keeping on top of home ed, running the house and parenting these days. I'm hibernating.

I am not sure if I am wasting my time posting this but I will anyway. Have a look at the IFR by age and how from 35+ it begins to rise steeply.

Age group (years) Infection Fatality Rate
0-34 0.004%
35-44 0.068%
45-54 0.23%
55-64 0.75%
65-74 2.5%
75-84 8.5%
85+ 28.3%

Yes, the risk still looks small until you get to 65+ , but to me it seems clear that if we gave the virus free rein and millions are infected many, many more people of all ages would get ill enough to be in hospital. Many of them would go on to die. Other non-covid patients would also die because they wouldn't be able to get the life saving treatment they need.

This is not about the young vs the old, this is about all of us, IMHO.

Source for table: link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-020-00698-1/tables/3

[quote Unsure33]@Temptashun

So would you be willing to go back to normal and sign a disclaimer that said if you were ill with the virus you would accept you may not get a hospital bed ? And the same for all your family ?[/quote]
Yes, I would. As things stand, my youngest child is more likely to self-harm than she is to become seriously ill with Covid. I do have an underlying condition which probably means I'd be quite ill - but I really don't give a shit at this point. I would gladly die if it meant my children could resume their proper lives.

@TiersBeforeBedtime

I never thought I would amend friendships for politics but being pro-lockdown or wanting tighter restrictions is such a huge clash of values for me. They don't care about the damage to their children or parents. It's astonishing

Same here, @LunaHeather

Honestly Tiers I'm sorry you're in the same boat but I want to hug you.

oak I agree, it's much better to have the outdoor walks/runs at any time, especially for shift workers. Curfew achieves nothing.

It's bollocks that everyone is booking holidays

I know, but my point was that you wouldn't think so from the endless offers which keep arriving - most of them with the implication that lots are booking now so "don't miss out"

I won't be booking yet, but if I was going to I'd see it more in the light of a donation, frankly

Add me to the list who would sign a disclaimer/do not treat, as I've said from day 1.

Agree, 1 in 20 are said to develop long covid, which will have a huge impact on economic productivity.
And if we relax lockdown 1000s will be incapacitated by the virus for at least a week which again will impact smooth running of the economy. Whatever they choose to do, there will be consequences.

Agree, 1 in 20 are said to develop long covid, which will have a huge impact on economic productivity

That would be 1% of the population currently suffering with it, either long covid is not really much of a problem, or it's not 1 in 20.

@Victoriacres

Agree, 1 in 20 are said to develop long covid, which will have a huge impact on economic productivity. And if we relax lockdown 1000s will be incapacitated by the virus for at least a week which again will impact smooth running of the economy. Whatever they choose to do, there will be consequences.

Exactly. I do think some people are still in denial about the fact that whatever we do there will be economic damage and loss of life and people's well being.

This makes for somber reading... I think we will see more protsts from the younger generations. We really need a reality check!

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_The_Global_Risks_Report_2021.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwipmZD33LfuAhXzQEEAHQ8ICUUQFjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw1B97qHtkX3cTtmSSxQaE25" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_The_Global_Risks_Report_2021.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwipmZD33LfuAhXzQEEAHQ8ICUUQFjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw1B97qHtkX3cTtmSSxQaE25

@Victoriacres

Agree, 1 in 20 are said to develop long covid, which will have a huge impact on economic productivity. And if we relax lockdown 1000s will be incapacitated by the virus for at least a week which again will impact smooth running of the economy. Whatever they choose to do, there will be consequences.

Long Covid won’t be an issue to economy. To personal finances yes but cost of stopping it outweigh benefit.

@Temptashun

LOL at the arrow of 'personal freedoms' pointing at communism on your diagram

HmmSureJan, excellent points in both your last

trulydelicious, I despair, me too. What would you rather.....keep your house on a mortgage, or let your neighbours elderly parent keep their life? would it not be great if we could achieve both? our economic system impacts our ability to do both.

@Temptashun and @Seasaltyhair

We are now divided by authoritarian and libertarian

Don't be fooled. The Left are very much alive and kicking just sometimes in disguise (like on this thread)

What is the alternative to lockdown ? Absolutely no restrictions at all ?

No mask wearing , all shops, pubs etc open, all children back at school, everyone back to work and if you get covid you don't need to isolate ? And then just see what happens ?

Isn’t there meant to yo be an increase in Type 1 diabetes in young people who have had COVID as a virus can trigger this. So I assume if we allow COVID free rein with no lockdown it could have long term health implications for a large number of young people.

Also for those parents who would rather die than let their children suffer under lockdown, do you not think your death would have economic and mental health implications for your child.

@frumpety

What is the alternative to lockdown ? Absolutely no restrictions at all ?

No mask wearing , all shops, pubs etc open, all children back at school, everyone back to work and if you get covid you don't need to isolate ? And then just see what happens ?

If you can't see the thousand steps between lockdown and this, there's no point trying to explain them 🤦🏽‍♀️

I don’t think holidays are a great idea this year but I see why people are booking them. There’s such a built up demand that if you don’t you won’t get anything when the time comes even last minute

Not if there's not the money to pay for them there won't

I know folk sacrifice an awful lot for their holidays, but if you've lost your job and savings, had your house repossessed and are trying to find something else among colossal unemployment, I wouldn't think holidays will be much of a priority

@MiniTheMinx

The fact we are discussing the value of life of elderly V the right to freedom and liberties of the young, proves that this economic system can not both protect life and the right to liberty equally

Why do you extrapolate the (understandable) mutually exclusive options we have during a pandemic and use them as an excuse to see your preferred 'economic' system imposed on people during normal times?

Because things will get back to normal, there will be no reshaping of society or any other bollocks that some are dreaming of here.

[quote trulydelicious]@Temptashun

LOL at the arrow of 'personal freedoms' pointing at communism on your diagram [/quote]
It pointed to communism 'in theory' at the former point of leftism. The 'communism in practice' was at the point of authoritarianism.