Riots against lockdown in Europe

[Downriver]

The scenes of young people burning down a COVID testing facility in the Netherlands and burning the Danish PM at a stake in protest against lockdown have really shaken me. Would it happen here? Who is organising this? Fascists? Sometimes I read comments against lockdown on here and I think such a mood is being primed.

Yep, right wing nut jobs. Go riot mums......you'll be in the company of fascist fuckwits.

The fact we are discussing the value of life of elderly V the right to freedom and liberties of the young, proves that this economic system can not both protect life and the right to liberty equally. Its either or. Not both. You can not open up the economy whilst also preventing unnecessary deaths. Yes we have a pandemic, but the greater threat to human life and our human dignity is capitalism, not covid. But unless your riots substantially bring social change, its costs in human life will outweigh its gains in reinstating your moderate freedoms.

@Unsure33

I have already seen posts being spread around Facebook in the uk for “ take back your business on 31st January “ so encouraging people just to open up and inferring if enough people do it then the police won’t cope .

I blocked that particular friend ( she is a lefty but I don’t think that is relevant )

She was also spreading rumours that the government know there is a cheap cure but won’t use it . So I asked why all other governments were not using it as well . She had no reply .

As it happened if she had googled it she would see there are trials of the drug happening at the moment . But that would be too difficult to comprehend.

Was it Ivermectin? It's worth knowing that many have been shouting about that for months, and the Indian government are in fact issuing it for use with covid and have been for a couple of months now.

It's similar to the fuss about vitamin D - lots of experts screaming about it since Jan 2020 - they were dismissed and ignored, and even called conspiracy theorists for suggesting that low levels of vitamin D could be exacerbating the problem. Hancock was asked about it multiple times I believe and kept saying that there was no evidence - he's definitely on record saying it in the House of Commons just a couple of months ago.

Then, there was the about face and the government are giving free supplies to the at risk groups.

I'm not surprised that your friend had no answer to your question as to why the government aren't using it. There's probably not be a good answer.

Children and the young should be angry very angry. They are the losers in this while protecting those who had their freedoms and who for a lot are still not bothering to protect themselves. I’m looking at elder family members here catching the bus to town because they have a free bus pass and the cola is 2p cheaper. They are by no means poor they have enough on their banks to buy a house and even have a car but it’s free and they are tight arses who are bored and don’t want to stay home. The type who have holidays booked this year and call around to friends houses because bored.

So our children miss school/university lose their jobs and spiral down mentally so those who we are protecting can do whatever they want as they must be protected at all costs the almighty old person.

If the young are fed up with it then go on and riot I wouldn’t blame them.

So how long do you expect people to endure this? People who are trying desperately to keep their businesses afloat, their jobs going, their children sane? At what point do we have a conversation about whether this is, in fact, the lesser of two evils?

See, I think we are having the conversation. I think the conversation never stops but you just don't like the way it's going. I think the government is constantly having the conversation hence the constant umming and ahhing, making promises they can't keep, always watching the polls to see what people like you want rather than the hard thing that needs doing. I think that's the main problem - the indecisiveness which has caused this to drag on and on. That said, I think they probably knew fairly close to the beginning how it was going to be but knew they couldn't say "that's it folks it's going to be like this for years or until an effective vaccination is found." That would have been intolerable for most and they simply wouldn't have done it. Some people cannot tolerate uncertainty and it causes them mental anguish so they rail against it and talk about We Need To Do Something! Others think we are Doing Something but for you it's The Something you don't want. If they're done the thing you want, you probably wouldn't be posting right now but there'd be hundreds posting about the ruthlessness of this government who are exposing all our vulnerable people to a deadly virus and letting them all die.

I don't think nows the time for riots - we're vaccinating as fast as we can - there's hope - in a few months we'll be moving around again. Breaking restrictions in say, June, when majority are vaccinated, well yes that seems reasonable.

[quote Unsure33]@Temptashun

So would you be willing to go back to normal and sign a disclaimer that said if you were ill with the virus you would accept you may not get a hospital bed ? And the same for all your family ?[/quote]
I'd definitely have been willing to sign a waiver for no covid treatment in exchange for freedom, yup. But that's because I'm extremely confident that at worst I'd have a 'bad flu' type experience with it. Kind of the same way that I'd not bother to take out a special life insurance policy just to take a particularly long trip in a car.

I wouldn't expect family members to do the same, though they could if they wanted, if they didn't fair enough.

People tend to assume that because I'm anti-lockdown that I'm anti-protecting people - I'm not. I think that furlough should have been by request, and granted on that basis. The condition being that if you take it, you also live under lockdown rules.
If you chose to live more freely - then you're also not protected from having to go to work.
Similar to the NHS waiver, essentially.

I do think there is a huge disconnect from those sitting comfortable in their big houses with outdoor space and a stable income or furlough enjoying zoom quizzes and baking and those who are struggling to keep businesses afloat, live in poverty or suffering from mental health issues caused by isolation.

This is just such a lazy assumption. "If you don't agree with me it's because you have a great life and don't care about those with less than you!". I've already described my circumstances on this thread, I won't bore you with them again. I know plenty in equally difficult situations who believe lockdown and waiting for vaccinations is the right way to go.

There's always a group of anarchist types in any European city that just love to incite/start a riot and then there are always plenty of sheep to follow them thinking they're making history or some very important point or some such BS. The US and Canada are the same. There have been the 'revolutionary' riots in the US, except they're not anarchists just the equally low life Trump supporters, what a joke.
I was in Canada when there were riots there, smashing everything up in Vancouver, absolutely futile, guess what it was over - ice hockey.

Excellent summary @HmmSureJan. You’ve summed up my thoughts almost exactly.

@TheKeatingFive

many relatively privileged people have grown up thinking that the powers that be will act in their interests

Where are these 'alternative powers' that will be prepared to act in people's interests? I'm curious

@MaxNormal we will come out the other side of this! It feels horrific but it will be over one day. One thing I like about the situation is finding out who my real friends are. It hasn't surprised me, but it's quite nice.

@Seasaltyhair

Temptashun - gosh that is so right. We are now divided by authoritarian and libertarian. There is no middle ground and I see this every where

Check out the Triggernometry channel on Youtube. Lots of different and sometimes controversial speakers who discuss the various aspects of this cultural shifting.

I think there have been rumblings as well in Italy.

The media here seems not to cover these protests across the EU so much which I find really disturbing (they should not be censorship when it comes to people protesting about lockdowns).

The Dutch are usually laid back and reasonable people so if they are protesting it is a good sign that people are starting to have enough and it seems curfews was the tipping point.

There is only so much people will tolerate when they see their jobs, mental health and freedom affected to that extend while the virus is not being brought under control by governments.

Could it happen here? if the government messes up the vaccine roll out and this carries on until the summer then maybe. With the heat and the economic crisis worsening, there will be unrest. People stuck in big urban cities in crowded accommodation will eventually reach a tipping point.

There will be protests about other matters too. If you have a look at other news items in the past couple of weeks you now have millions of people affected by the growing cladding scandal in the UK and going bankrupt/at risk of homelessness. They haven't taken to the streets yet because of the lockdown but that won't last as the government is trying to impose a cladding tax on them...if that law passes it will be the Poll Tax riots all over again, lockdown or not.

@FanciedanewnameAnne

Their university lecturers might not fare as well as they do, their grandparents and parents might not

Exactly, a lot of university lecturers are elderly, should we give up on them too?

Where are these 'alternative powers' that will be prepared to act in people's interests?

I’m not sure I understand your question.

My point is that quite a lot of privileged people are used to feeling that the government is acting in their interests. It’s taking a while for those people to process that their children are being thrown under the bus.

@MiniTheMinx

Capitalism is not compatible with the protection of life

What are you on about? I despair, really

Wait till brexshit fallout hits. Millions of thoroughly pissed off folk led to believe those sunlit uplands were around the corner will be the first in the queue to protest.

Exactly, a lot of university lecturers are elderly, should we give up on them too?

They are well set up to work from home. A good many colleagues of mine have not returned to campus since lockdown first happened last March, but have been delivering their sessions via Zoom or Blackboard collaborate. I've personally been WFH since the end of October. In terms of volume we have more work than ever before - online delivery takes a LOT of preparation and instructions to students have to be very clear and well-organised - but individual lecturers with their employers' agreements are better placed than most to do their jobs effectively from their desktop

@wasthataburp

To be honest I'm surprised it's taken this long for it to start happening.

These people have had enough and maybe can't see a way out.

All the stuff in Italy with "iopen" too, I can't believe it hasn't happened here yet

All what stuff in Italy? A handful of restaurants said they were going to open for longer hours than they are currently allowed to. Then didn't. Made for great publicity though.

But then everyone is complaining that students aren't getting the uni experience, hence the rioting!

@LunaHeather

f you had said this about other groups, your post would be removed for discrimination

It is discrimination and @MiniTheMinx 's post should be indeed deleted

I don’t think holidays are a great idea this year but I see why people are booking them. There’s such a built up demand that if you don’t you won’t get anything when the time comes even last minute

@ElectraBlue

I think there have been rumblings as well in Italy.

The media here seems not to cover these protests across the EU so much which I find really disturbing (they should not be censorship when it comes to people protesting about lockdowns).

The Dutch are usually laid back and reasonable people so if they are protesting it is a good sign that people are starting to have enough and it seems curfews was the tipping point.

There is only so much people will tolerate when they see their jobs, mental health and freedom affected to that extend while the virus is not being brought under control by governments.

Could it happen here? if the government messes up the vaccine roll out and this carries on until the summer then maybe. With the heat and the economic crisis worsening, there will be unrest. People stuck in big urban cities in crowded accommodation will eventually reach a tipping point.

There will be protests about other matters too. If you have a look at other news items in the past couple of weeks you now have millions of people affected by the growing cladding scandal in the UK and going bankrupt/at risk of homelessness. They haven't taken to the streets yet because of the lockdown but that won't last as the government is trying to impose a cladding tax on them...if that law passes it will be the Poll Tax riots all over again, lockdown or not.

There have been rumblings in Italy, yes, but that's all. Things are slowly opening up again anyway. The hospitality sector has been obviously badly hit, though unless they're in a red zone (of which there are only currently 3 regions) they've been allowed to open with restrictions anyway. The thing was with most of their plans to "iopen" that they were not allowed to open at the same hours that the curfew was in place...so anyone going to their opened restaurant would have been fined, which they hadn't quite thought about. No riots though.

[quote tatutata]@MaxNormal we will come out the other side of this! It feels horrific but it will be over one day. One thing I like about the situation is finding out who my real friends are. It hasn't surprised me, but it's quite nice.[/quote]
One of the hardest things for me is finding I have one anti lockdown friend. One.

I never thought I would amend friendships for politics but being pro-lockdown or wanting tighter restrictions is such a huge clash of values for me. They don't care about the damage to their children or parents. It's astonishing.

Not riots but still protesting

newsaf.cgtn.com/news/2021-01-24/Czech-pubs-restaurants-open-in-protest-against-COVID-19-restrictions-Xim9cnFfIQ/index.html