Riots against lockdown in Europe

[Downriver]

The scenes of young people burning down a COVID testing facility in the Netherlands and burning the Danish PM at a stake in protest against lockdown have really shaken me. Would it happen here? Who is organising this? Fascists? Sometimes I read comments against lockdown on here and I think such a mood is being primed.

I will reiterate again, the only collective rational response is to follow the guidance. There is no collective rational argument supporting civil unrest in the middle of a pandemic. To riot or protest on the street is the ultimate in stupidity and selfishness.

This won’t cut much mustard with those who’ve been thrown under the bus and whose needs have been ignored by the Covid restrictions.

If society makes it clear it doesn’t care about you, why would you make sacrifices to act in its interests?

I’m constantly shocked at how many people fail to understand this.

I'm just loving that there's been an upsurge in holiday bookings from vaccinated pensioners
Rest of us meanwhile......

For how long? And for how long does that remain the rational response?

Long enough to give the country a chance to get as many at risk people vaccinated as possible, reduce the weight on the NHS so that when others get it they can have a hope of efficient none time restricted care in an easily available beds. For myself I'll be saving protesting until afterwards, when this government try to weasel out of financing the NHS as it should be.

What I genuinely find fascinating is that parents are prepared to let this happen to their children without a fight, asking for schools and children's lives to be shut down

I agree, im shocked by this. There will be crippling regret in the years to come I think.

However I think many relatively privileged people have grown up thinking that the powers that be will act in their interests. It’s quite an adjustment now, acknowledging that they won’t, that their children have been thrown under the proverbial bus. The scales are only beginning to fall.

Every time a liberal person wants to protest they are now called a fascist.

Yes. It's a bit annoying.

If I was a young person, I would protest too.

If society makes it clear it doesn’t care about you, why would you make sacrifices to act in its interests?

This with bells on.

@MaxNormal

Bring it on, I'll be there at the front.

I'll join you. I've reached my limit today. And I can't take any more of the fucking hints about policy changes, it's being in a constant state of tortured uncertainty. Cruel bastards.

I'll join you, too. For some reason, I feel more hopeless and angry today than I have felt for months (and I have spent pretty much every day since mid March 2020 feeling hopeless and angry). I am so unspeakably sick of this.

@furonthecoat

Your long post expressed the situation of young people so well. My children are at sixth form and university. Or would be. As it is, they have wretched, curtailed, isolated, screen-bound lives. I am watching them becoming increasingly depressed (and I use this word advisedly: I don't just mean 'miserable' in the case of one of them), lethargic, and unmotivated. Two are now on medication, because the "answer" to lockdown is to turn it into a medical problem. It isn't a medical problem: it's a massive, monstrous mistake.

My children haven't seen their friends for months. They haven't seen their grandparents or extended family for almost a year. Yet they will be the ones paying for this with the salaries that they won't be earning, because there will be no jobs and their qualifications will forever be called into question on the grounds that they didn't actually go to school or university for a huge proportion of the time.

Their brains are still developing in every way - but how can they develop socially and emotionally when the only people they ever see are one another and me?

I lost my job and income when my sector was torpedoed last March. I left an abusive husband and had managed to get things onto an even keel. Now my children's lives have been shafted again.

I am so very, very angry and upset on their behalves, and on behalf of all children and young people who are being affected by this.

Long enough to give the country a chance to get as many at risk people vaccinated as possible, reduce the weight on the NHS so that when others get it they can have a hope of efficient none time restricted care in an easily available beds

In which case they should set out likely timescales for this, not this constant doommongering shit about how restrictions will have to continue and the vaccine isn't the way out of it.
Because that's going to backfire bigtime - people will be thinking what's the fucking point?

Sympathetic to the fact that people are losing their homes and jobs.

The restrictions have led to this. But the restrictions have sought to protect life. Capitalism is not compatible with the protection of life. That is why we find ourselves walking a tightrope. That's why our government will neither dispense with restrictions or go fully in with policies that protect life at all costs. Either way whatever they did could lead to civil unrest.

This is why these conversations concern me. Along with dozens of threads demanding schools reopen now. The government is constantly using intelligence gathering to predict what it should do in order to prevent civil unrest and a breakdown in society. What we should concentrate on now is protecting human life.

Yes, there are questions to answer later. The working classes have been disproportionately effected by both having to work front line during lockdowns, but also risk to health and welfare has been disproportionately felt by the working class, as well as how covid has effected the BAME communities. In Kent where the new variant took root it did so in hard right working class communities! I'm pointing the finger at non mask wearing right wing middle aged men, working class and feeling disenfranchised. I understand. But, now is not the time to join them, or riot. To do so is to call upon your right to further your own exploitation under an economic system that is not compatible with preserving life, or even human dignity in life.

@Beaniecats

I'm just loving that there's been an upsurge in holiday bookings from vaccinated pensioners Rest of us meanwhile......

I agree this adds to the growing sense of unfairness. If these vaccinated pensioners do indeed get more freedom or their holidays (perhaps they will be the only ones that can afford it) and theres another bad bout next winter I imagine the tolerance to lock down for young people will be very very low indeed.

Two are now on medication, because the "answer" to lockdown is to turn it into a medical problem. It isn't a medical problem: it's a massive, monstrous mistake.

That makes me so angry on behalf of your children.

Medicating them for a perfectly natural response to this shit show.

I just looked up the rates of prescriptions for anti-depressants - at an all time high. 6m people now on anti-depressants in the UK.

I'm so dismayed by what we are doing.

@TheQueef

No Cara I've enjoyed the Dutch climate many times. I'm also a bit older and have lived through a few UK episodes of unrest, trust me when I say it's too cold. Even during the miners strikes the picket would depend on the weather. We're British.

This reminds me of a photo I saw recently from the London Riots years ago. The rioters were queuing up to loot a shop. Queuing! Even the looting style was British 🙈 .

What we should concentrate on now is protecting human life.

That's just reiterating what many of us have had to do for almost a year, protect human life, put other people first for something that isn't even much of a risk to us personally, with no care or consideration in return, no end date and no thanks.
I have utter compassion fatigue. I don't care. I don't care who dies now, myself included.

In Kent where the new variant took root it did so in hard right working class communities! I'm pointing the finger at non mask wearing right wing middle aged men, working class and feeling disenfranchised.

Wow. Speechless at that one.

What I genuinely find fascinating is that parents are prepared to let this happen to their children without a fight, asking for schools and children's lives to be shut down

I know it’s baffling. Always parents put dc first except for this. I find it so odd

id say they are frustrated as are many people right now. They've probably had the ability to protest taken away as has happened in most countries. Hence, they probably don't know what else to do to vent their frustration against the system. The damage from these lockdown is going to be far bigger than the virus.

@Wildswim

Every time a liberal person wants to protest they are now called a fascist.

Yes. It's a bit annoying.

If I was a young person, I would protest too.

I think maybe because in America in particular it did become heavily politicised (mainly because Trump decided to make it so). So committed Trump supporters and those to the right of them became fixated on not wearing masks, so mask wearing became a sign you were left wing/liberal/anti-trump.

I think in other countries it has been more nuanced.

@MarshaBradyo

What I genuinely find fascinating is that parents are prepared to let this happen to their children without a fight, asking for schools and children's lives to be shut down

I know it’s baffling. Always parents put dc first except for this. I find it so odd

exactly this!

@hamstersarse

I think most people are totally aware of what is going on in the lives of young people , however, the virus being out of control in society means that restrictions are necessary until under control. Some countries worked this out a long time ago and controlled the spread to an extent that they have more freedoms again. My point is rioting will not help the spread and only mean they end up arrested and in trouble. Yes university students have to learn online. Yes most children cannot attend school. Yes most have a restricted social life but it isn't forever and goes on longer and longer when the virus spreads uncontrolled.

So what would you suggest. Sod the dying, leave them at home and just let young people go out and about as normal. Their university lecturers might not fare as well as they do, their grandparents and parents might not. Sadly, healthcare workers are the ones that are dying in larger numbers than the usual population - do we just say sod them and let them die so young people can socialise. Answers or suggestions rather than rioting has got to be a better way.

If the government thought they could do something that was more popular among most people, surely they'd do it?

@hamstersarse Thank you - your post brought a tear to my eye (I have been on the verge of crying with frustration and anger all day, so a tear of human kindness makes a nice change).

@MaxNormal I feel the same as you.

And @MarshaBradyo - yes. The willingness of parents to sacrifice their children/young adults makes my head spin. How can this even be possible?

@MarshaBradyo

What I genuinely find fascinating is that parents are prepared to let this happen to their children without a fight, asking for schools and children's lives to be shut down

I know it’s baffling. Always parents put dc first except for this. I find it so odd

Maybe some parents are putting their children first in this - you know by following guidelines to protect their grandparents/parents/teachers etc. It is very easy to slur but what solutions do you have to the pandemic?

@MarshaBradyo

What I genuinely find fascinating is that parents are prepared to let this happen to their children without a fight, asking for schools and children's lives to be shut down

I know it’s baffling. Always parents put dc first except for this. I find it so odd

I think at the moment parents are mostly fire fighting trying to get home schooling working, and may not have the mental space to think through the bigger picture.

Also there's an issue in that for me personally there's no clear cut answer to what the worst case scenario is. DS stuck at home - teen years and education fucked. Covid allowed to run rampant - I'm a single parent in my 50s with asthma - if I die his teens and education are also fucked. There's no way through this that won't harm him. I'm looking at damage limitation here - complete avoidance of damage is simply not one of the options on the table here.

In which case they should set out likely timescales for this, not this constant doommongering shit about how restrictions will have to continue and the vaccine isn't the way out of it.
Because that's going to backfire bigtime - people will be thinking what's the fucking point?

How can they possibly do this when the virus is mutating and new versions are appearing which they need to research and find out if they're responsive to the vaccination? What happens if they say - as many of you seem to want - ok fuck it, do what you want, open the schools, open the country, let the chips fall where they may? And there's no beds and no ambulances and you'll be in accidents and there'll be no one to come. There'll be no new diagnoses of cancer and other life threatening illnesses and you'll say well that's already happening but it isn't, not on the huge scale that it will be when our health service is completely swamped and at a standstill. And vulnerable people - like my sister who had cancer in her twenties and now has a severely compromised immune system will not get the follow ups she needs and will be forced out to work because "everyone is taking the risk so why can't you?" and exposed to catching it.

I genuinely understand the anger and fear but what else is there to do? I know a woman in her thirties who died of Covid a few weeks ago, she was in work at the beginning of the work, fell ill and had died by the end of the week. I posted my shock on FB and loads of people were telling similar stories. It's not even been a year since this pandemic started, did you really all expect that we'd be back to normal by now with the half arsed measures that were put in place at the beginning? I knew from when it started that this was going to grind on and on. I don't understand how people couldn't see it. I don't want to go all new age counsellor on the matter but I think there's a lot to be said for trying to imagine the worst that something will be and prepare yourself for that. I did that back last March and tried to prepare my kids to do the same. There's nothing else to do. Riots are a meaningless form of protest in this instance because you can't topple a virus or force it to change.

@MarshaBradyo

What I genuinely find fascinating is that parents are prepared to let this happen to their children without a fight, asking for schools and children's lives to be shut down

I know it’s baffling. Always parents put dc first except for this. I find it so odd

I actually wonder if our generation - the parents of dependents - are actually being extremely selfish in all of this.

When I dare to enter discussions such on such topics as 'value of life' after Lord Sumption's comments last week, there are a LOT of people telling me that their life is as important as their children's - of equal value.

A lot of my generation seem to genuinely believe that. I don't. I would absolutely sacrifice myself for my children's lives, without question. It wouldn't even be difficult or something I would even consider for more than a second. Yet a lot of people my age don't seem to be thinking that - children no longer seem to be the most important and valued people in society like they have been for millennia, for what used to be obvious reasons. And this seems to be playing out in the situation we have for young people that they are supporting and often demanding? I hear people say "they will be fine, they are resilient" and genuinely that strikes me as very selfish on the part of the parent because I am sure what they actually mean is " I will be fine if you sacrifice your young life"