Riots against lockdown in Europe

[Downriver]

The scenes of young people burning down a COVID testing facility in the Netherlands and burning the Danish PM at a stake in protest against lockdown have really shaken me. Would it happen here? Who is organising this? Fascists? Sometimes I read comments against lockdown on here and I think such a mood is being primed.

If these vaccinated pensioners do indeed get more freedom or their holidays (perhaps they will be the only ones that can afford it) and theres another bad bout next winter I imagine the tolerance to lock down for young people will be very very low indeed.

I doubt very much that British people will get overseas holidays for a very long time. We don’t have vaccination passports and the government is saying we won’t be getting them. Most countries won’t let people in without them.

I suspect if the government tries to lock us down next winter they’ll be told to fuck right off.

DParse

I have children and I don't think I am sacrificing them - what hysterical and emotive language you use. They are fit and healthy, they are doing their best with following the same online learning although at school sat on a laptop doing it like other children. They are going for walks and getting out as much as possible. They are missing friends/clubs/and our usual days out but they realise it will not be forever. We are waiting for the vaccine numbers to get to a level when the numbers needed hospital treatments are lowered so that things can open up again. They haven't been sacrificed at all. This extreme language that some use must really worry children.

Mini "I'm pointing the finger at non mask wearing right wing middle aged men, "

1. it's a virus. Put your jabby finger away.
2. if you had said this about other groups, your post would be removed for discrimination.

I think it's good you show your true colours.

Every time governments have attempted to put a date on anything - e.g. trying to say what would be allowed at Christmas, a few weeks beforehand - they've had to take it back, and been resoundingly criticised for ever making those promises in the first place.

@Beaniecats

I'm just loving that there's been an upsurge in holiday bookings from vaccinated pensioners Rest of us meanwhile......

There are lots of unvaccinated non pensioners booking holidays too. This ageist nonsense about holiday bookings was done to death on a couple of threads recently.

TUI, the UK's largest tour operator, says 50% of bookings on their website are currently by over-50s

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55654127

I knew from when it started that this was going to grind on and on. I don't understand how people couldn't see it

So how long do you expect people to endure this? People who are trying desperately to keep their businesses afloat, their jobs going, their children sane? At what point do we have a conversation about whether this is, in fact, the lesser of two evils?

You clearly believe it is. Not everybody does, and more and more people will stop believing it's worth it as more time passes and more lives are ruined, no matter what the death rate.

You cannot ask people to live in a state of despair and isolation.

@ravenmum

Every time governments have attempted to put a date on anything - e.g. trying to say what would be allowed at Christmas, a few weeks beforehand - they've had to take it back, and been resoundingly criticised for ever making those promises in the first place.

We don’t need a date. We do need a number of vaccinations/deaths/hospital admissions/ positive tests. How hard can it be to say we’ll open up if all/any of those decrease to a certain level?

@Blessex

My DH is Dutch. He says it is happening for 2 reasons.

Firstly they have just (last Friday) imposed a curfew for the first time since the Second World War. Curfew 9pm until 5am. That hasn’t gone down well.

Secondly the vaccine rollout in the Netherlands is the slowest in the EU - half the rate of ave EU. Given the rate in the EU is already slow then this is a snails pace. It was due to being the latest to start because they weren’t ready with their IT and data systems.

Yes this! My DP is also Dutch. Dutch family (in A’dam and a smaller town) are disapproving but think it is a minority of troublemakers, they say it is bored youths and a handful of troublemakers. Interestingly, they have all been a lot more relaxed about covid all along, the lockdown only fairly late and always being allowed to have people visiting inside providing they keep at safe distance. I think closing the bars upset people and the curfew thing is striking a nerve as it harks back to nazi occupation but in the town they are in, youths have been causing trouble throughout. Destructive boredom.

But the unemployment is lower there than in the UK, the economy is fairly strong. The gov resignation is not actually unusual, it reflects a coalition breakdown (akin to a predicted UK vote of no confidence) and there is an election in March so a caretaker govt is only until then. But people are finding covid hard and young men often struggle worst in hard times it seems. I am sure there is vulnerability to that certain global internet based destabilisation propaganda beginning with Q (not naming it as it doesn’t deserve airtime).

Our family members certainly aren’t hiding indoors. One who lives in A’dam is on a walk looking at historical buildings this afternoon. Beware of media hype!

I would join in, personally. I’m sickened the kids are locked out of school, they should be in on a rotational basis in small groups.

thefallthroughtheair Having been calm at first, I have become increasingly furious about the absolute lack of foresight and the continued shutting down of debate. If I, as a middle-aged, wealthy, highly-educated, left-leaning "progressive", am absolutely bloody furious about this, I can't imagine how those more affected by these policies are feeling. What is being done in the name of "just one life", and "saving the NHS" is an absolute disgrace.

Yes this^^ agree totally. DD boyfriend now on anti-depressants. DD losing all motivation. My parents have been vaccinated and still not allowed to see us, so they are wondering what was the point of it all? Risking arrest just to leave the house!

My old psychology Professor used to say to me "it's all about sex"

I have wondered what young men, who are deeply driven by sex, have been doing throughout all these restrictions - their opportunities for sex have dwindled to almost nothing.

I can't imagine that helps with their propensity to riot.

...just to take the thread off in a completely different direction!

I knew from when it started that this was going to grind on and on. I don't understand how people couldn't see it

Tbf it’s been a year nearly. Even Whitty said we’d tire.

This reminds me of a photo I saw recently from the London Riots years ago. The rioters were queuing up to loot a shop. Queuing! Even the looting style was British

I shouldn't laugh, but sometimes can't help it

About the holiday bookings though - sorry, but the "everyone's booking!!" messages coming from holiday companies are a bit like all those "only x number left" warnings when you know perfectly well it's not so
Right now I'm afraid I see holiday payments more like a loan to help with the cashflow - probably along with a hefty dose of angst to get it back if the holiday doesn't go ahead

@Puzzledandpissedoff

This reminds me of a photo I saw recently from the London Riots years ago. The rioters were queuing up to loot a shop. Queuing! Even the looting style was British

I shouldn't laugh, but sometimes can't help it

About the holiday bookings though - sorry, but the "everyone's booking!!" messages coming from holiday companies are a bit like all those "only x number left" warnings when you know perfectly well it's not so
Right now I'm afraid I see holiday payments more like a loan to help with the cashflow - probably along with a hefty dose of angst to get it back if the holiday doesn't go ahead

Yes it’s remarkable R4 blast this out for them but it’s pure advertising PR for holiday sector

@FanciedanewnameAnne

DParse

I have children and I don't think I am sacrificing them - what hysterical and emotive language you use. They are fit and healthy, they are doing their best with following the same online learning although at school sat on a laptop doing it like other children. They are going for walks and getting out as much as possible. They are missing friends/clubs/and our usual days out but they realise it will not be forever. We are waiting for the vaccine numbers to get to a level when the numbers needed hospital treatments are lowered so that things can open up again. They haven't been sacrificed at all. This extreme language that some use must really worry children.

I am glad your children are fit and healthy. Mine have already endured an awful lot of things that children should never have had to endure, and I am still working through that with them. The youngest in particular has struggled, and had been doing much better until the schools shut.

I don't use extreme or emotive language in front of them. I encourage resilience. But that means all the more than I need an outlet for how I really feel about it (i.e. here).

Just because your children are ok with online education and will go for walks and get out, please don't assume that other people's children are having the same experience. If you have any understanding of depression, you will know that even getting out of bed feels like a mountain that's too high to climb.

It was obvious from the start there would be riots over this. You can’t lock people away from the world and expect them to be lovely and compliant about it 10 months down the line. I know more people to have died from suicide due to lockdown than I know people who have tested positive or died from covid.

This extreme language that some use must really worry children

Why do you think they hear it though? People can type how they feel here whilst being positive to dc irl.

@hamstersarse

I will reiterate again, the only collective rational response is to follow the guidance. There is no collective rational argument supporting civil unrest in the middle of a pandemic. To riot or protest on the street is the ultimate in stupidity and selfishness.

It sounds to me like you are one of the people referred to in this thread who has secure income, Zoom parties and a large garden.

You can call people stupid all you like, but there is a limit to what people will take (and have to lose). When your job prospects are severely restricted, you can't pay the bills - you really have no other options.

I know you will have heard multiple times about how the lockdowns are hitting the poorest first and hardest - do you not think this is true?

I'm working class. Hate gardening

Yep, husband earns well. I can choose not to work, but mostly I'm committed to my work and those we look after. Children. So, perhaps that might illustrate that I'm also very concerned with mental health in children. Its my job.

I never thought, as a hard left Marxist I'd be imploring people to follow government guidance. But I am.

@hamstersarse

When I dare to enter discussions such on such topics as 'value of life' after Lord Sumption's comments last week, there are a LOT of people telling me that their life is as important as their children's - of equal value

A lot of my generation seem to genuinely believe that. I don't. I would absolutely sacrifice myself for my children's lives, without question. It wouldn't even be difficult or something I would even consider for more than a second. Yet a lot of people my age don't seem to be thinking that - children no longer seem to be the most important and valued people in society like they have been for millennia, for what used to be obvious reasons. And this seems to be playing out in the situation we have for young people that they are supporting and often demanding? I hear people say "they will be fine, they are resilient" and genuinely that strikes me as very selfish on the part of the parent because I am sure what they actually mean is " I will be fine if you sacrifice your young life"

This is so well said.

@Katie517

To be honest people are getting fed up. They are losing everything they have ever worked for and young people feel like they are having their futures stolen. So it wouldn’t surprise or shock me if we had similar here. Anyone who dares to question lockdown is labeled as a fascist or a covid denier so there is very little people can do to air their frustration aside from protest.

I do think there is a huge disconnect from those sitting comfortable in their big houses with outdoor space and a stable income or furlough enjoying zoom quizzes and baking and those who are struggling to keep businesses afloat, live in poverty or suffering from mental health issues caused by isolation.

Just the fact that you were surprised by people protesting and asked if they were fascists proves my point!

Hit the nail on the head.

Fascists OP? Jesus. If you really don't understand why people are rioting you need to give your head a shake and live in the real world.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

This reminds me of a photo I saw recently from the London Riots years ago. The rioters were queuing up to loot a shop. Queuing! Even the looting style was British

I shouldn't laugh, but sometimes can't help it

About the holiday bookings though - sorry, but the "everyone's booking!!" messages coming from holiday companies are a bit like all those "only x number left" warnings when you know perfectly well it's not so
Right now I'm afraid I see holiday payments more like a loan to help with the cashflow - probably along with a hefty dose of angst to get it back if the holiday doesn't go ahead

It's bollocks that everyone is booking holidays. I wish they were! I am looking at empty calendars for the whole of 2021. The one couple due to come at Easter have now rescheduled for April 2022.

Many people on other threads talking about booking holidays, I assume they are not all over 80

@LunaHeather

Mini "I'm pointing the finger at non mask wearing right wing middle aged men, "

1. it's a virus. Put your jabby finger away.
2. if you had said this about other groups, your post would be removed for discrimination.

I think it's good you show your true colours.

Yep, and ill keep pointing at them too. I hate football following right wing fascist skin head nut jobs.....passionately so we have them here too. None of them are wearing masks.

It's bollocks that everyone is booking holidays. I wish they were! I am looking at empty calendars for the whole of 2021. The one couple due to come at Easter have now rescheduled for April 2022.

Where are you? U.K. or Europe / other

@HmmSureJan

Your son must be finding it very difficult indeed yes. Let's hope this nightmare is resolved quickly