Riots against lockdown in Europe

[Downriver]

The scenes of young people burning down a COVID testing facility in the Netherlands and burning the Danish PM at a stake in protest against lockdown have really shaken me. Would it happen here? Who is organising this? Fascists? Sometimes I read comments against lockdown on here and I think such a mood is being primed.

@furonthecoat

But it is the fact it is young people that interests me. It is not those under massive stress of wfh and homeschooling etc. I just want to know the demographic, the motives, whether the Q people have got into their heads.

OP your narrative of this is exactly why young people are rioting. You think we're not under stress and should just put up and shut up and that you have it the hardest of all

Young people are being locked away for what we're always told is 'the best years of our lives'
We're the majority of people employed in industries that have been massively affected and shut down by COVID (bars
We've been largely ignored by the government except when they want to vilify and blame us
Uni students are paying the same amount for massively reduced teaching, restricted access to resources and no 'uni experience' (clubs, societies, ect) that we were promised
Students are paying massive amounts of rent for accomodation they can't use with not even a mention of rebates by the government
Young people are aware that we're the ones who are going to pay for this in the long run whilst simultaneously seeing our futures decimated as there are no jobs
We're being locked away to protect an NHS that realistically many of us think won't be there by the time we'll really need its services
We're staying home to (mostly) protect the elderly whom are comfortable in their big houses with their pensions whilst we have no hopes of ever getting on the housing ladder and will never realistically get a pension.

Young people feel like we're giving up tons of things for other people. And then when we dare complain about what we've had to give up were told by people like you that we have it so easy with not having to home school and to put up and shut up - essentially diminishing our struggles.

We've all been asked to sacrifice during this time. But not everyone's sacrifices are as great as others. And for many the sacrifices is not proportional to the gain.

I entirely agree with this. I’m in the privileged position of having a stable income, a mortgage free house and being old. Would I swap places with your generation now? Not a bloody chance. Would I be on the streets protesting if I was young? Hell yes.

The price we’re exacting from young people now is shockingly high, they’re bearing the brunt of it. You have my utmost sympathy @furonthecoat, not that it helps much.

I hope there are riots. It's about time we stop sacrificing the young

Yes that will be amazing for the majority young people who are involved in them and could end up with criminal records, injured or even worse carrying the memory and guilt of some terrible action they might commit while caught up in the moment. Not to mention those who will be the victims of it and lose livelihoods, property or are killed or hurt. Sounds like a plan 👍🏼

@BlowDryRat

They're miserable, poor and stressed beyond belief and increasingly don't understand why

Don't they understand, really? After 10 months?

@MarshaBradyo I am not 100% sure, I can only go by what I see on the news (not having attended said riots myself). It looks to be a mix of people and ages - the majority are probably young men (but then that is true of all riots) but there are also older people and women. But it seems to be a mix of ethnicities as well (so not just white dutch, or just ethnic minorities etc). In terms of the friends I have who support the anti-lockdown protests (not necessarily riots) they are a white dutch woman who owns a small business and is married to a South American, and the other Turkish, married to and Eastern European. Neither are people who are likely to be right wing/part of the Van Gilders crowd. (The fact they are women is more to do with my friendship group, the ethnicity of them and their family is probably more to do with the area we live in. It is a biased sample.)
I don't know for certain about class/socio-economic status - even though I have lived here many years I am less attuned to Dutch class signifiers than UK ones. But it seems to be mixed - maybe more people from working class backgrounds but a lot of middle class types as well.

@furonthecoat

But it is the fact it is young people that interests me. It is not those under massive stress of wfh and homeschooling etc. I just want to know the demographic, the motives, whether the Q people have got into their heads.

OP your narrative of this is exactly why young people are rioting. You think we're not under stress and should just put up and shut up and that you have it the hardest of all

Young people are being locked away for what we're always told is 'the best years of our lives'
We're the majority of people employed in industries that have been massively affected and shut down by COVID (bars
We've been largely ignored by the government except when they want to vilify and blame us
Uni students are paying the same amount for massively reduced teaching, restricted access to resources and no 'uni experience' (clubs, societies, ect) that we were promised
Students are paying massive amounts of rent for accomodation they can't use with not even a mention of rebates by the government
Young people are aware that we're the ones who are going to pay for this in the long run whilst simultaneously seeing our futures decimated as there are no jobs
We're being locked away to protect an NHS that realistically many of us think won't be there by the time we'll really need its services
We're staying home to (mostly) protect the elderly whom are comfortable in their big houses with their pensions whilst we have no hopes of ever getting on the housing ladder and will never realistically get a pension.

Young people feel like we're giving up tons of things for other people. And then when we dare complain about what we've had to give up were told by people like you that we have it so easy with not having to home school and to put up and shut up - essentially diminishing our struggles.

We've all been asked to sacrifice during this time. But not everyone's sacrifices are as great as others. And for many the sacrifices is not proportional to the gain.

Excellent post. Young people are the major losers in all of this and I'm not in the least surprised that they are protesting.

"young people burning down a COVID testing facility in the Netherlands"

That's really going to help free up hospital beds, prevent further spread of virus etc. Do these rioters actually have any different solutions or is it just burn things? Sounds like they could do with giving their heads a wobble and engaging brains a bit.

[quote apalledandshocked]@MarshaBradyo I am not 100% sure, I can only go by what I see on the news (not having attended said riots myself). It looks to be a mix of people and ages - the majority are probably young men (but then that is true of all riots) but there are also older people and women. But it seems to be a mix of ethnicities as well (so not just white dutch, or just ethnic minorities etc). In terms of the friends I have who support the anti-lockdown protests (not necessarily riots) they are a white dutch woman who owns a small business and is married to a South American, and the other Turkish, married to and Eastern European. Neither are people who are likely to be right wing/part of the Van Gilders crowd. (The fact they are women is more to do with my friendship group, the ethnicity of them and their family is probably more to do with the area we live in. It is a biased sample.)
I don't know for certain about class/socio-economic status - even though I have lived here many years I am less attuned to Dutch class signifiers than UK ones. But it seems to be mixed - maybe more people from working class backgrounds but a lot of middle class types as well.[/quote]
Thanks Appalled interesting to get insight from someone there

@FanciedanewnameAnne

"young people burning down a COVID testing facility in the Netherlands"

That's really going to help free up hospital beds, prevent further spread of virus etc. Do these rioters actually have any different solutions or is it just burn things? Sounds like they could do with giving their heads a wobble and engaging brains a bit.

Alternatively, people could start listening to what is going on in their lives because of the restrictions and stop dismissing them as nothing

[quote trulydelicious]@BlowDryRat

They're miserable, poor and stressed beyond belief and increasingly don't understand why

Don't they understand, really? After 10 months?[/quote]
@trulydelicious No, they don't understand, because they were told it was a temporary measure and it's not, and they want their lives back, now, not at some distant point in the future. They have been lied to and stolen from, and if I were them I would be hopping mad. Actually, I am hopping mad.

I think part of the current heavy suppression is because when vulnerable are vaccinated it is known that it will be harder to stop mixing

That's actually a very good point, though if it happens I've every confidence that they'll "discover" another variant or insist the jabs don't give enough protection after all

Which would put them between a bit of a cleft stick, since if they admit the vaccines aren't effective we may see even more mixing on the basis of "why bother?"

I am amazed that there have been such high levels of compliance here.
There has been no cost-benefit analysis and indeed no care for the medium to long-term effects of policy.
Whenever anyone raises questions about restrictions, it is deemed an adequate response to simply say that they are Covid-deniers, anti-vaxxers, fascists etc etc. I for one am none of those things. I do believe however - and more strongly as time has gone on - that the cure is far worse than the disease.
Having been calm at first, I have become increasingly furious about the absolute lack of foresight and the continued shutting down of debate. If I, as a middle-aged, wealthy, highly-educated, left-leaning "progressive", am absolutely bloody furious about this, I can't imagine how those more affected by these policies are feeling. What is being done in the name of "just one life", and "saving the NHS" is an absolute disgrace.

@Katie517

To be honest people are getting fed up. They are losing everything they have ever worked for and young people feel like they are having their futures stolen. So it wouldn’t surprise or shock me if we had similar here. Anyone who dares to question lockdown is labeled as a fascist or a covid denier so there is very little people can do to air their frustration aside from protest.

I do think there is a huge disconnect from those sitting comfortable in their big houses with outdoor space and a stable income or furlough enjoying zoom quizzes and baking and those who are struggling to keep businesses afloat, live in poverty or suffering from mental health issues caused by isolation.

Just the fact that you were surprised by people protesting and asked if they were fascists proves my point!

Agreed.

I have never protested about anything, ever. But I would protest about lockdown. I don't have much to lose now, really, as I have already lost most of it.

In the protests here in Germany, something like 75% of protesters are aged over 40.

@peoplebesensible

I know someone who is egging people on for civil unrest. He talks about herd immunity and when I counter that with the evidence that natural herd immunity isn't going to work here for this virus he gets angry and abusive.

I think that if anyone now wanting riots sits down and looks at the evidence from scientists and comes up with an idea about a way out of this other than social distancing and vaccines, then I am sure that the government will be very pleased to hear their ideas. They don't need to riot.

If people riot there will be more death and more chaos and more financial hardship and more misery.

All the posters who last year said we would all be dead or dying from starvation by last June were wrong. What actually happened was not as bad as they said, even though it has been pretty shite, because so many people rallied together and followed the advice of scientists. Are the same posters all going to come back on here again now, egging people on to ignore social distancing and riot, just as the NHS are facing the worst of it and the vaccines are being rolled out? Crazy.

This ^

With bells on.

If those people opposing lock down and restrictions have a better alternative for getting us out of this mess, then the government will be glad to hear it.

In the same way that ordinary Liberal centrist people want their liberties (always limited, but i won't bore you on the limits of liberal freedoms) their jobs, their lifestyle, their leisure, their connections, and their access to education, shopping, and other services back, be assured that the liberal capitalist state wants that for you!

Whilst our government have shown piss poor judgment and leadership, and poor decisions leading to much greater harm, be certain that this is precisely because they fear social unrest.

I will reiterate again, the only collective rational response is to follow the guidance. There is no collective rational argument supporting civil unrest in the middle of a pandemic. To riot or protest on the street is the ultimate in stupidity and selfishness.

When the pandemic is under control we can start to ask questions, to organise if we wish and protest.

Despite being poles apart politically with Xenia, I'm finding a lot of sense in what I'm reading!

Alternatively, people could start listening to what is going on in their lives because of the restrictions and stop dismissing them as nothing

Oh I do. I have an autistic 17 year old who - and it's very hard for me to say this - has told me he thinks his life is over at 17, can't see the point in anything and doesn't know how he can carry on living feeling like this. Every few weeks there's a huge bellowing meltdown after which he has headaches that last for days and can't even attempt to do his college work. He wakes in the night and comes and wakes me to talk as he feels so bad and lonely. I am looking for a single bed chair so he can sleep in my room at night. So I get it and I dismiss nothing but I also know that riots are not the answer and that we are being manipulated into this by doom laden manipulative MSM and various groups with ideologies which will be suited very well by huge, infrastructure damaging riots.

*If you’d told me that people would have quietly accepted the destruction of their businesses, their employers, the economy, their children’s education, and would tolerate the government telling them who they may have in their houses and where they they may travel and whether or not they can hug their mothers, I’d have declared you insane.

With the news that schools won’t go back before Easter, it’s time for some that outrage here*

This.

@MaxNormal

Don't hold back there!

Not today no. Today I've been pushed way too far and I'm sick with stress and very angry.

I know. Me too. Don't worry tbh I found it kinda funny in a weird way. Although yes I know not funny before I get given the mumsnet lecture.

the only collective rational response is to follow the guidance

For how long? And for how long does that remain the rational response?

I will reiterate again, the only collective rational response is to follow the guidance. There is no collective rational argument supporting civil unrest in the middle of a pandemic. To riot or protest on the street is the ultimate in stupidity and selfishness.

It sounds to me like you are one of the people referred to in this thread who has secure income, Zoom parties and a large garden.

You can call people stupid all you like, but there is a limit to what people will take (and have to lose). When your job prospects are severely restricted, you can't pay the bills - you really have no other options.

I know you will have heard multiple times about how the lockdowns are hitting the poorest first and hardest - do you not think this is true?

tatutata want an unmumsnetty hug? You being nice has made me cry, thank you, I probably needed it.
Sorry, not being massivley rational today.

It sounds to me like you are one of the people referred to in this thread who has secure income, Zoom parties and a large garden.

I am a single parent. I live in a two bedroom flat in London with no garden and disabled children which limits my earning potential severely.

If you’d told me that people would have quietly accepted the destruction of their businesses, their employers, the economy, their children’s education

And yet so many on here think people should just accept it. Any harm from this is not real or important. Usually those who stand to gain most from it being minimise.

..d

@HmmSureJan

Alternatively, people could start listening to what is going on in their lives because of the restrictions and stop dismissing them as nothing

Oh I do. I have an autistic 17 year old who - and it's very hard for me to say this - has told me he thinks his life is over at 17, can't see the point in anything and doesn't know how he can carry on living feeling like this. Every few weeks there's a huge bellowing meltdown after which he has headaches that last for days and can't even attempt to do his college work. He wakes in the night and comes and wakes me to talk as he feels so bad and lonely. I am looking for a single bed chair so he can sleep in my room at night. So I get it and I dismiss nothing but I also know that riots are not the answer and that we are being manipulated into this by doom laden manipulative MSM and various groups with ideologies which will be suited very well by huge, infrastructure damaging riots.

Your poor DS, hugs to you both.

@HmmSureJan

Alternatively, people could start listening to what is going on in their lives because of the restrictions and stop dismissing them as nothing

Oh I do. I have an autistic 17 year old who - and it's very hard for me to say this - has told me he thinks his life is over at 17, can't see the point in anything and doesn't know how he can carry on living feeling like this. Every few weeks there's a huge bellowing meltdown after which he has headaches that last for days and can't even attempt to do his college work. He wakes in the night and comes and wakes me to talk as he feels so bad and lonely. I am looking for a single bed chair so he can sleep in my room at night. So I get it and I dismiss nothing but I also know that riots are not the answer and that we are being manipulated into this by doom laden manipulative MSM and various groups with ideologies which will be suited very well by huge, infrastructure damaging riots.

I am very sorry to hear of your experience. That sounds incredibly rough.

What I genuinely find fascinating is that parents are prepared to let this happen to their children without a fight, asking for schools and children's lives to be shut down. The messaging we have received seems to have erased our maternal instincts somewhere. Very clever of the psychologists to have got so many parents to sacrifice their children's wellbeing so willingly (remember you are selfish and a granny killer if you even dare say that children are suffering here)