Riots against lockdown in Europe

[Downriver]

The scenes of young people burning down a COVID testing facility in the Netherlands and burning the Danish PM at a stake in protest against lockdown have really shaken me. Would it happen here? Who is organising this? Fascists? Sometimes I read comments against lockdown on here and I think such a mood is being primed.

Lockdown isn't working and people are beginning to lose their marbles .it's not surprising

So we’re asking young people to put their lives on hold indefinitely to save a service that they don’t use. Can people not see the flaw in this logic?

I think that's one of the most dangerous things I've read on here.

Is it Ok if I don't care about libraries being closed, because I don't use them? Is it OK if I don't care about free school meals being stopped, because my family don't need them? And mental health services, because we've never needed those either? If my children are young adults, and out of education, can I stop paying that part of my taxes that's spent on education because we're not using it?

And please don't accuse me of being over dramatic, because that's exactly where you're heading.

And will those young people who aren't using the health service (I mean, apart from being born and having their jabs and being taken to the GP when they were ill, or A&E when they broke their arm playing} be happy when it's their GPs being thrown on the scrap heap? Or is it just some generic 'old person' so they don't need to worry?

I am not saying - see my earlier post above - that the old should be prioritised over the young. But I'd like to see a solution that is fair for everyone, not different groups with different interests trying to shout loudest.

@mummytolittledragons lockdown isnt working in what way? What do you think it's trying to achieve?

I think a lot of people are missing the point here . Its about how THEY feel . You might think it's right, you might think its wrong and its probably not how YOU feel. But people are rioting because they have had enough of these restrictions.
I can understand what it is like to be at the end of your rope and I can see the unfairness of it all .

“I am not saying - see my earlier post above - that the old should be prioritised over the young. But I'd like to see a solution that is fair for everyone, not different groups with different interests trying to shout loudest”

I think you’ll find that young people have been expected to put up and shut up for the last year. The old have most definitely been prioritised over the young. Now you can argue that it was essential in a crisis but how long can that continue? How do you square the circle that old people need young people to stop leading their lives in order to keep older people safe?

@TheQueef

It's too cold for any civil disobedience in the UK. We only like sunny riots.

Hahaha you know what, I actually there's a lot of truth in that.

[quote MaxNormal]@trulydelicious it's actually your insinuations that are more worrying, that everyone who understands why the riots are happening or who is beyond fed up has some sort of extremist agenda.
Far from it.[/quote]
And you don't think that's the perfect situation for an extremist group (of whatever kind, but I know what I think...) to use to their advantage to kick off the riots and antisocial behaviour their movement needs to attain their goals of disrupting and ultimately breaking down society? You're right people are fed up, it's hard times, unprecedented times and maybe some people would like to protest against it but you are clueless if you don't think that this is the perfect tinder box opportunity and it's being carefully managed for those movements to grab and use it to their advantage. They are doing it now and have been doing it all along. We've been watching it all summer in the US.

@MaxNormal

it's actually your insinuations that are more worrying

I actually said that it's understandable that people are fed up with the whole virus situation (who wouldn't be? We are all affected to varying degrees)

But it's also quite evident that a lot of posters do have a political agenda (and it's not a good one by the looks of it)

@MaxNormal

And I don't give a fuck about crying nurses.

Don't hold back there!

Don't hold back there!

Not today no. Today I've been pushed way too far and I'm sick with stress and very angry.

The younger generation might not have the same pressures as those home schooling etc, but they are frustrated and bored (a lethal combination in itself) and they have less to lose: no mortgage, no job, no children or other dependents.

I'm in Spain: very posh bit, and there were small riots in my city at the weekend. Mostly bottles thrown at policemen and arrests the other way.

I don't agree with it, but I kind of understand. I'm self employed and have had to continue paying my self employment payment (300€ per month) just to qualify for the financial assistance which is €550 a month and doesn't always come! The "young people" have lost a lot and then are consistently blamed for it, will be the last to get the vaccine and be faced with the financial crisis that is to follow... I get why they've had enough.

@Feedingthebirds1

I think the point is about young people and children and the impact this is having on their lives seems to have no recognition in any of the policy making.

In discussion about lockdowns and erosions of freedoms there seems to be no acknowledgement about how different life stages are impacted in different ways.

I am 46, I can work from home, I've led a pretty full life. I am bored and have total sensory underload but I am generally fine. However, teenagers for example, have faced sudden disruption during a key stage in their transition to adulthood. During this stage, they usually become more autonomous and begin planning for their futures. They cannot get this time back, it isn't a pause button, it will hinder their development into adulthood. Genuinely, look back to when you were 14-15 and think about what it would have been like to be essentially locked in your own home with your parent(s) for weeks on end? Not being able to see your friends, get a boy/girlfriend? Try a bit of underage drinking? Explore where you live? Have to navigate the complexities of social relationships? Never mind all the milestone/life long memory events such as leaving school, school trips, winning prizes, losing prizes.

You may in your mind dismiss these things as irrelevant because 'people are dying' but I don't dismiss them. Passages in life are important, very very important.

I feel we have completely disregarded the natural growth required for children and young people in the name of saving very old and usually sick people. This is at the tipping point of being immoral to young people and it really is enough now - they have done their bit. I'm not surprised at all if they start to get angry.

@ancientgran Did it? There were riots in some inter city areas at times in the 80s, which proportionally involved a miniscule amount of the population of the city in question, let alone the country. At no point were riots not contained and were dealt with reasonably quickly. The way some people are talking about "covid riots" you would think is is Russia in 1917 which is rubbish. The main protection against rioting/protesting in the UK is apathy.

I think if once the elderly and vulnerable have been vaccinated and we are still living with restrictions (which the govt are saying we will have to) then this will happen here. It will be spring (so warmer, brighter and longer evening) and the young and healthy people who have been told from day dot they are staying at home to protect the vulnerable who will in turn overwhelm the NHS will ask why then are restrictions still needed? And there will be riots.

@Downriver

The scenes of young people burning down a COVID testing facility in the Netherlands and burning the Danish PM at a stake in protest against lockdown have really shaken me. Would it happen here? Who is organising this? Fascists? Sometimes I read comments against lockdown on here and I think such a mood is being primed.

People who are against the government’s (supported by the opposition) rules aren’t “fascists.” People from all over the political spectrum protest. There’s social unrest all over the Western world. People are struggling financially and mentally and lost so much. I’m not surprised they’re protesting.

I think people here are being relatively patient at the moment because of the vaccine rollout, but I can imagine that come March when the majority of vulnerable people should have been immunised with at least one dose, (which the government has said will give a high rate of protection and the second dose is only for longevity 🤔) then people will start to get twitchy ESPECIALLY if restrictions aren’t starting to ease.

I know there is a question mark over the risk of transmission etc but theoretically once the at risk groups are protected from severe infection, then the strain on the NHS should start to ease. Obviously this won’t be immediately apparent as there will be some patients who are already inpatient with severe Covid, but I would expect admission rates to drop with a degree of regularity within the next month.

@MarshaBradyo There is support for employers to pay their employees: www.government.nl/topics/coronavirus-covid-19/information-for-business-owners
and for businesses: business.gov.nl/corona/overview/the-coronavirus-and-your-company/

That is not to say that many people arent absolutely worried sick at the thought of losing their jobs or businesses, the same as in thr UK I think the uncertainty is stressful even if people are temporarily OK. And of course there will be some businesse/individuals who fall through the cracks for one reason or another. I have not had to claim anything so dont have personal experience.

@hamstersarse I agree with everything you say ..I'm 45 , my life is boring now anyway, but this would have driven me to god knows what if this had happened when I was a teenager!
Everyone that is coming down heavy on the youngsters have already had their youth and probably all their freedom.
( of course someone will come on after me telling us about teenagers during the war / in the trenches/ 3rd world countries etc)

I think part of the current heavy suppression is because when vulnerable are vaccinated it is known that it will be harder to stop mixing.

I hope they are factoring this in anyway.

[quote hamstersarse]@Feedingthebirds1

I think the point is about young people and children and the impact this is having on their lives seems to have no recognition in any of the policy making.

In discussion about lockdowns and erosions of freedoms there seems to be no acknowledgement about how different life stages are impacted in different ways.

I am 46, I can work from home, I've led a pretty full life. I am bored and have total sensory underload but I am generally fine. However, teenagers for example, have faced sudden disruption during a key stage in their transition to adulthood. During this stage, they usually become more autonomous and begin planning for their futures. They cannot get this time back, it isn't a pause button, it will hinder their development into adulthood. Genuinely, look back to when you were 14-15 and think about what it would have been like to be essentially locked in your own home with your parent(s) for weeks on end? Not being able to see your friends, get a boy/girlfriend? Try a bit of underage drinking? Explore where you live? Have to navigate the complexities of social relationships? Never mind all the milestone/life long memory events such as leaving school, school trips, winning prizes, losing prizes.

You may in your mind dismiss these things as irrelevant because 'people are dying' but I don't dismiss them. Passages in life are important, very very important.

I feel we have completely disregarded the natural growth required for children and young people in the name of saving very old and usually sick people. This is at the tipping point of being immoral to young people and it really is enough now - they have done their bit. I'm not surprised at all if they start to get angry.[/quote]
I agree re children. It is dismissed too easily.

I feel we have completely disregarded the natural growth required for children and young people in the name of saving very old and usually sick people. This is at the tipping point of being immoral to young people and it really is enough now - they have done their bit. I'm not surprised at all if they start to get angry

Excellent post.
Easy for the old to throw the young to wolves but isn't that what they ve always done?

@Em777

Having lived in the Netherlands for three years this doesn’t surprise me. The Dutch get pretty grumpy during an average winter. 😂 New Year’s Eve is usually a festival of destruction.

I am suprised anyone actually had fireworks left by this time! My neighbour was complaining the shops had sold out by November (as the kids threw mini fireworks at each other) New Years Eve is odd though, because though as you say it is a festival of destruction it isnt particularly grumpy. It always has a feel of an unnusually happy riot in my area (people light piles of christmas trees and car tyres in the road to stop the police driving down them) but there are lots of happy children running around with medical eyepatches holding flares.

I'm surprised that anyone's surprised. Civil liberties have been curtailed to an extent unprecedented in modern times, individuals, families and businesses are suffering from financial ruin through no fault of their own, people are being asked to do the impossible WRT homeschooling and every way out (3 weeks to flatten the curve, November lockdown for an open Christmas, vaccinating the vulnerable, etc.) has been ruled out by someone in government. People see no way out of this. They're miserable, poor and stressed beyond belief and increasingly don't understand why.

I'm astonished at the lack of consideration for young people. But then this is the older generation who voted Brexit

I hope there are riots. It's about time we stop sacrificing the young.