Riots against lockdown in Europe

[Downriver]

The scenes of young people burning down a COVID testing facility in the Netherlands and burning the Danish PM at a stake in protest against lockdown have really shaken me. Would it happen here? Who is organising this? Fascists? Sometimes I read comments against lockdown on here and I think such a mood is being primed.

Not surprising given the EU's poor handling of the vaccine rollout.

@ancientgran

Of course there's exceptions, there's always exceptions.

But when you look at the NHS as a whole the vast majority of its services are used by the elderly. And the young (which I think in the case means young adults so your kids at school are irrelevant to this) use the smallest % of services.

That's what people mean.

It's the same when people say old people are enjoying their nice houses with gardens whilst young people are stuck in tiny flats/house shares. Of course there are plenty of exceptions with poor old people and rich young people but when you look at it as a percentage there are far more old people in better situations.

This is why we have the ONS and similar, because Anecdata is rarely accurate and never gives the full picture on a country wide scale

I disagree tuly I have been on MN for many many years. Usually someone will suggest a riot and you will get the eyeball rolls, then the jokes, then the baiting of the op before everyone agrees that riots are a a stupid idea.

This is the ONLY thread I have personally read ever that agreed that it was probable and even something people would 'understand' if it happened. I can't think of a time when that has happened before.

It just goes to show, people have had enough, and according to Matt bloody Hancock we are not even half way through yet.

@user1497207191

Should have imposed a curfew at the same time as the lockdown though to ensure people who didn't need to be out stayed at home

Exactly, some of these posts are so overly dramatic and ridiculous

The Dutch curfew is also completely pointless and just a cynical way to raise money from the fines. It's January. By 9 pm everyone has finished socialising and gone home. This is a country who eat their evening meal at 5:30pm.
However it does mean that the police can wait on a main road and then charge 95 euros to every motorist that passes.

@ancientgran. Your anecdata is irrelevant and not reflective of the facts - not sure why you consider it important to mention. Of course there will always be a 20yo who needs expensive cancer treatment and a 90yo who doesn’t need any medical care.

At a population level, young people don’t use the NHS and pensioners do.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/01/ageing-britain-two-fifths-nhs-budget-spent-over-65s

Back in the 80s I used to prepare for the riots (we had a few back then) sorting out manpower, transport, food etc. If I woke up on a cold rainy day I knew I could relax a bit, hot sunny day and I'd be working hard to get everything ready for the inevitable call.

Yes, I agree. I was in the police in the 80s. Not only potential riots etc., but same with other crimes, such as burglaries, drunks, fights, etc. We knew we'd have a quiet day/night, if the weather was bad, in terms of street crime etc. People really don't like getting cold/wet!

[quote hamstersarse]@ancientgran

Anecdote does not equal a fact. Older people take up far more resource in the NHS.

"More than two-fifths of national health spending in the UK is devoted to people over 65, according to estimates produced for the Guardian – a figure that is only likely to increase with the nation’s ageing demographic.

The data shows that an 85-year-old man costs the NHS about seven times more on average than a man in his late 30s. Health spending per person steeply increases after the age of 50, with people aged 85 and over costing the NHS an average of £7,000 a year. Spending on health services across all age groups is £2,069, according to the ONS"[/quote]
And being inaccurate about what people have said does equal fact either.

Nowhere did I say older people didn't take up more NHS resoruces. I was replying to a post that ended So we’re asking young people to put their lives on hold indefinitely to save a service that they don’t use. Can people not see the flaw in this logic?

Young people do use the service, I gave some examples but I could give more, a friend's twins delivered at 24 weeks, they count as young don't they? Three months in ICU, regular inpatient emergency admissions due to problems with their lungs. Another person I know with Cystic Fibrosis, young but needs regular inpatient treatment. So I stand by what I said, young people do use the NHS, they do need the NHS, sometimes it is life or death when they use it so to say it is a service they don't use is wrong.

Curfews have been used in a few countries

But peaceful protest should remain in a democracy

I thought it later than June but yes it’s important to note if it has been removed. I haven’t read much on it

if we stick together and just hold on for a couple of months we will have some normality

Really? How many times have people said this since last March? You have no idea that this will be the case, absolutely none at all.

[quote trulydelicious]@feelingquitehopeful

if Mumsnet of all places is not adverse to a riot

And you think Mumsnetters are all saintly? There are very obvious agitators here

The OP was started to stir trouble for one[/quote]
I think I agree. The sly direction to label them Far Right riots gave it away.

@user1497207191

Back in the 80s I used to prepare for the riots (we had a few back then) sorting out manpower, transport, food etc. If I woke up on a cold rainy day I knew I could relax a bit, hot sunny day and I'd be working hard to get everything ready for the inevitable call.

Yes, I agree. I was in the police in the 80s. Not only potential riots etc., but same with other crimes, such as burglaries, drunks, fights, etc. We knew we'd have a quiet day/night, if the weather was bad, in terms of street crime etc. People really don't like getting cold/wet!

It is funny when you think about it, so rough and tough but a bit of light rain and they decide to stay indoors.

Of course the nightmare in the 80s would be me pinching half the bodies off your unit to send them off to another city that has rioting while the poo devils left behind are trying to deal with all that other stuff.

So I stand by what I said, young people do use the NHS, they do need the NHS, sometimes it is life or death when they use it so to say it is a service they don't use is wrong.

Their usage of it is much, much less than older groups is the point.

@ancientgran

And once again your anecdata is irrelevant

People are talking on a population wide level.

It'd be the same if I said 'young people don't use bingo halls' or 'old people don't use clubs and bars'. There will always be exceptions to these rules. But on a population level they as a group don't.

You're also will fully misunderstanding the use of 'young people' in this thread. It doesn't apply to your friends children. Young people in this case are older teens and young adults.

This disease seems to have undone many of the efforts to keep people artificially alive and it’s difficult for people to accept that

Absolutely

And yes, I'm well aware that the chronic conditions include asthma and that some of the very sick can live (or at least exist) for years But sadly an awful lot don't and the "extremely vulnerable" list includes a great deal more than that

@HmmSureJan

The sly direction to label them Far Right riots gave it away

Yes, several threads of this type springing up in the 'Coronavirus' section over the months.

Many people are fed up (understandably) and inadvertedly join the bandwagon (adding to the contagion effect). Other posters who contribute do not seem to be so innocent themselves. Worrying

@trulydelicious it's actually your insinuations that are more worrying, that everyone who understands why the riots are happening or who is beyond fed up has some sort of extremist agenda.
Far from it.

Their usage of it is much, much less than older groups is the point. Well maybe say that then, I repeat the post I replied to said young people didn't use the NHS which isn't true. If it said young people use it less or use it far less than would be correct.

Lot of things were introduced late in the Netherlands, such as wearing facemasks. It was considered a breach of freedom to wear whatever you wanted (or not wanted in this case).
Some underaged people were taken into custody as well, incl 14 year old.

So rough and tough but a bit of light rain and they decide to stay indoors

I'm always reminded of the Extinction Rebellion lot; given their concern about climate change you wouldn't think a bit of bad weather would put them off, so it's perhaps odd that it takes decent weather to bring most of them out

[quote furonthecoat]@ancientgran

And once again your anecdata is irrelevant

People are talking on a population wide level.

It'd be the same if I said 'young people don't use bingo halls' or 'old people don't use clubs and bars'. There will always be exceptions to these rules. But on a population level they as a group don't.

You're also will fully misunderstanding the use of 'young people' in this thread. It doesn't apply to your friends children. Young people in this case are older teens and young adults. [/quote]
Again young people do use the NHS, it is simple untrue to say a blanket young people don't use the NHS.

Tell all the young mums in a maternity hospital that as a population they don't use the NHS, I'm sure they will be surprised.

As to my friends children, has it occured to you that the young person with CF isn't a child? You might have missed it but children with health conditions frequently do grow up thanks to the NHS.

People shitting on about "mass protests and riots" in the UK are typical keyboard warriors, generally meaning "We will moan a bit more on MN/social media" while waiting for occado and amazon to deliver.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

So rough and tough but a bit of light rain and they decide to stay indoors

I'm always reminded of the Extinction Rebellion lot; given their concern about climate change you wouldn't think a bit of bad weather would put them off, so it's perhaps odd that it takes decent weather to bring most of them out

As my GS pointed out it was surprising that so many young people drove to Bristol to protest. I did tell him some were local but he said he knew loads in local 6th forms who drove up, we have such a good train connection as well.

@Rosehip10

People shitting on about "mass protests and riots" in the UK are typical keyboard warriors, generally meaning "We will moan a bit more on MN/social media" while waiting for occado and amazon to deliver.

It did happen in the 80s though. If I remember rightly it was at it's worst in summer of 84. Lots of overtime sloshing about that year, I knew so many police couples who decided to go for separate taxation or they'd have been higher rate tax payers.

@ancientgran. If you had read the first paragraph in my original comment it actually stated.

“Everyone keeps saying ooooh it’s to protect the NHS. Young people generally are not users of the NHS with a few notable exceptions - maternity for example”

Is there anything that you don’t understand by my comment and use of the word generally?