Riots against lockdown in Europe

[Downriver]

The scenes of young people burning down a COVID testing facility in the Netherlands and burning the Danish PM at a stake in protest against lockdown have really shaken me. Would it happen here? Who is organising this? Fascists? Sometimes I read comments against lockdown on here and I think such a mood is being primed.

@BountyFul

Brits need rioting weather. I think businesses will rebel before we see riots.

I can’t imagine businesses doing this. What would it be like? You get a big fine and ordered by police to shut? No idea how it would go

I think rioting takes a trigger. It needs things to boil over and boil over with the category of people who will riot. Exhausted home schooling parents aren’t going to riot because they get a bit more exhausted day by day. The ostensible trigger in the Netherlands was a curfew. I can’t see the current UK government imposing a curfew. What do people think a trigger would be here?

Lots of countries have had curfews - France, Germany, Spain ...

I was wondering why we have not already reached this point until I remember the people under the most strain is US.

We are the ones that are truly suffering - working full time, home schooling lots of children, cooking and supplying food around the clock and trying to keep everyone well. Some of us are doing this completely alone. On the whole according to most stats it is mothers that are picking up the slack. Maybe it is not that hard if you are just chilling watching netflix, ordering deliveroo and wittling down the days with a little DIY - we can only dream of that situation!! We are at fucking breaking point!!

We don't even have time to complain.

So maybe the reason why the riots have not broken out yet is really because those that are truly being broken by this lockdown have neither the energy or the time to walk out and do something about this just yet. But that time is surely fast approaching when we collectively snap.

THIS IS NOT OKAY

It is totally unsustainable.

@carlaCox

burning the Danish PM at a stake in protest

Probably should clarify you mean burning a picture of the Danish PM at the stake! I read this and thought "what?!?!".

I did a double take, I was hoping it was something like a bonfire night guy.

And you have got to ask yourself that if Mumsnet of all places is not adverse to a riot, you are have a big problem on your hands PM.

Open the god damn schools

@BountyFul

Brits need rioting weather. I think businesses will rebel before we see riots.

That's true about the weather. All the riots I remember have happened when the weather is very hot. People get very badtempered.

@hamstersarse

Riots are never just mindless violence

Exactly. They are instigated by specific groups with a very clear political agenda

Having lived in the Netherlands for three years this doesn’t surprise me. The Dutch get pretty grumpy during an average winter. 😂 New Year’s Eve is usually a festival of destruction.

According to the ONS and Public Health England we're seeing 20% more deaths than a normal year since March 2020 (see chart)

Yes I've seen it, and always remembering that a life is a life I also remember that the huge majority (though not all) are the very aged and the chronically sick

The thing about some not accepting that anyone will ever die has already been well covered, as has the point that a pandemic was overdue, but awful as it is to think about I sometimes wonder if this is nature's way of balancing things up

Obviously we'd rather avoid any deaths and we try - god, how we try - but as said before, maybe it's time to accept that we can't cure everyone of everything all the time

The riots in Eindhoven (where they attacked the hospital) weren't by the locals. Anarchist, conspiracy theorists, and various right wing groups coordinated the action. The area around the railway station was badly hit, with shops being looted, as that's how most of them arrived.
The attacks in Urk (where they burnt down the test center) weren't by university students either. They were by the locals. The Netherlands has big problems with hooligans and yob culture. It's one of the reasons they're trying to ban fireworks as they're regularly thrown at the police.
Urk is also conomially deprived and the poorest region of the Netherlands, at more than 16% below the national average. It was a thriving fishing community and an island until it ended up landlocked in the 1930's when the government built a huge North Sea dyke and drained the land. It destroyed the community and the economy and the inhabitants haven't forgiven or forgotten.
I typed Urk into Dutch Google and the first suggestion that comes up is 'Urk inbred', so you can see why they hate the government and the rest of the country - and hence the riots.

@feelingquitehopeful

if Mumsnet of all places is not adverse to a riot

And you think Mumsnetters are all saintly? There are very obvious agitators here

The OP was started to stir trouble for one

A more serious issue to my mind is that since last June peaceful protest in the UK has been illegal. This is concerning in any supposed democracy no matter what the reasons it was imposed. Despotic systems always start on the pretext that 'it's for your own good'.

People in general seem totally oblivious to this point.

Ironically it demonstrates the absolute necessity for education. In this case, for history education.

People explain this erosion of civil liberties as essential cos of Covid, like we are prepared to compromise everything we have ever fought for (yes, we have fought for it) as fair game when it comes to covid. I see absolutely no argument that is valid to be removing the right to peaceful protest. We do not have a democracy if we do not have that right. And that is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the erosion of civil liberties we have experienced over the last year - and a refusal to guarantee they will be returned

@Bartlet

Everyone keeps saying ooooh it’s to protect the NHS. Young people generally are not users of the NHS with a few notable exceptions - maternity for example. The main users are the same people most affected by Covid - the old and the vulnerable. And yes i know there’s always exceptions before someone wields out the 40yo marathon runner.

So we’re asking young people to put their lives on hold indefinitely to save a service that they don’t use. Can people not see the flaw in this logic?

I certainly needed emergency maternity services when I was young. One of my kids needed emergency services when they got hit by a car when crossing the road outside their school, one needed emergency services when they got meningitis in their first year at uni. So I can't agree with you that young people don't use the health service.

@BaronessBomburst

The riots in Eindhoven (where they attacked the hospital) weren't by the locals. Anarchist, conspiracy theorists, and various right wing groups coordinated the action. The area around the railway station was badly hit, with shops being looted, as that's how most of them arrived. The attacks in Urk (where they burnt down the test center) weren't by university students either. They were by the locals. The Netherlands has big problems with hooligans and yob culture. It's one of the reasons they're trying to ban fireworks as they're regularly thrown at the police. Urk is also conomially deprived and the poorest region of the Netherlands, at more than 16% below the national average. It was a thriving fishing community and an island until it ended up landlocked in the 1930's when the government built a huge North Sea dyke and drained the land. It destroyed the community and the economy and the inhabitants haven't forgiven or forgotten. I typed Urk into Dutch Google and the first suggestion that comes up is 'Urk inbred', so you can see why they hate the government and the rest of the country - and hence the riots.

Interesting background 👍

are the very aged and the chronically sick

I think there's a common misconception that "chronically sick" means "was at death's door anyway."

In fact it includes conditions like asthma which if well managed in the normal run of things wouldn't have adversely affected someone's lifespan.

@CaraDuneRedux

are the very aged and the chronically sick

I think there's a common misconception that "chronically sick" means "was at death's door anyway."

In fact it includes conditions like asthma which if well managed in the normal run of things wouldn't have adversely affected someone's lifespan.

If asthma is well managed, the risk is the same as for everyone else.

@oakleaffy

Oh my word... a Curfew?
That is a move too far.
No wonder people are angry

Do you know what a curfew is or experienced it in practice? Why do you think it's so outrageous?

@BountyFul

Brits need rioting weather. I think businesses will rebel before we see riots.

So true. Back in the 80s I used to prepare for the riots (we had a few back then) sorting out manpower, transport, food etc. If I woke up on a cold rainy day I knew I could relax a bit, hot sunny day and I'd be working hard to get everything ready for the inevitable call.

@CaraDuneRedux

are the very aged and the chronically sick

I think there's a common misconception that "chronically sick" means "was at death's door anyway."

In fact it includes conditions like asthma which if well managed in the normal run of things wouldn't have adversely affected someone's lifespan.

I agree. OH has "terminal" cancer, in that it can't be cured, and is therefore classed as extremely clinically vulnerable, but he's only in his 50's, still running his own business full time, and realistically could live another 10/20 years with treatment. He's ECV because of his severely weakened immune system, both due to the cancer itself and the chemotherapy treatment. We're definitely not ready for him to die from covid!

@ancientgran

Anecdote does not equal a fact. Older people take up far more resource in the NHS.

"More than two-fifths of national health spending in the UK is devoted to people over 65, according to estimates produced for the Guardian – a figure that is only likely to increase with the nation’s ageing demographic.

The data shows that an 85-year-old man costs the NHS about seven times more on average than a man in his late 30s. Health spending per person steeply increases after the age of 50, with people aged 85 and over costing the NHS an average of £7,000 a year. Spending on health services across all age groups is £2,069, according to the ONS"

[quote trulydelicious]@oakleaffy

Oh my word... a Curfew?
That is a move too far.
No wonder people are angry

Do you know what a curfew is or experienced it in practice? Why do you think it's so outrageous?[/quote]
Exactly, there's nothing to be out for at night, no pubs, clubs nor restaurants, and no one should be socialising anyway. If you need to be out for work, then you'd be exempt from the curfew. I don't see the problem at all. Should have imposed a curfew at the same time as the lockdown though to ensure people who didn't need to be out stayed at home.

Totally agree @Puzzledandpissedoff. Modern medicine has been amazing at lengthening life expectancy over the last century but that has meant that we have many older, frailer and chronically ill people. This disease seems to have undone many of the efforts to keep people artificially alive and it’s difficult for people to accept that.

My grandmother who died a couple of years ago would have been incredibly vulnerable to covid. She had been kept alive for years on a treasure chest of pills and medical procedures. There is no doubt that she would have died decades ago without it. If covid had killed her then her death could have been classed as covid but she was old, sick and had been propped up with pills.

@hamstersarse

I see absolutely no argument that is valid to be removing the right to peaceful protest

Do you think most of the protests in the UK over the summer were peaceful? Don't think so. Do you think the Danish and Dutch protests were peaceful?

And that is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the erosion of civil liberties we have experienced over the last year - and a refusal to guarantee they will be returned

Why is it so hard to grasp that 'liberties' will return but the government cannot yet establish a date because of the unpredictability of the virus/vaccine outcomes and treatments?

January and February are write off months anyway at normal times so I believe this will start happening here if nothing changes come March! And as @TheQueef has stated, it's too cold here to riot right now.