Riots against lockdown in Europe

[Downriver]

The scenes of young people burning down a COVID testing facility in the Netherlands and burning the Danish PM at a stake in protest against lockdown have really shaken me. Would it happen here? Who is organising this? Fascists? Sometimes I read comments against lockdown on here and I think such a mood is being primed.

I understand points of view even though I am against the CV19 mandatory measures. We had the same divided issues of Brexit. You can respect opinions of others even though you are free to criticise them and say they are wrong and seek to change their view to yours. Most people on both sides of this divide are reasonable good people. You will have some awful people on both sides too but not most.

@Watchingbehindmyhands

Can I ask those who say they've had enough? Given the situation with the NHS, if we said this afternoon 'right, do what you want, fuck it, but we won't guarentee a bed for anyone with covid and we won't guarentee that any other treatments will be available because we will be over run with covid', will you be happy for you and your family to take your chances? Not just with covid but everything else? If you have a car accident? Or your child suddenly needs their appendix removing urgently? Or your mum goes from 'quirky' to 'downright bonkers' with dementia in the matter of a week? Are you prepared to take that risk?

All of that is already happening.

Here in Germany, the people who are sceptical about the lockdown and Covid in general tend to be more right-wing. This picture is currently going round - on the left are the areas where the right-wing AfD party was voted for in 2019, on the right the areas with a high number of Covid infections.

My DH is Dutch. He says it is happening for 2 reasons.

Firstly they have just (last Friday) imposed a curfew for the first time since the Second World War. Curfew 9pm until 5am. That hasn’t gone down well.

Secondly the vaccine rollout in the Netherlands is the slowest in the EU - half the rate of ave EU. Given the rate in the EU is already slow then this is a snails pace. It was due to being the latest to start because they weren’t ready with their IT and data systems.

Everyone keeps saying ooooh it’s to protect the NHS. Young people generally are not users of the NHS with a few notable exceptions - maternity for example. The main users are the same people most affected by Covid - the old and the vulnerable. And yes i know there’s always exceptions before someone wields out the 40yo marathon runner.

So we’re asking young people to put their lives on hold indefinitely to save a service that they don’t use. Can people not see the flaw in this logic?

MadameBlobby he may have been a scumbag but we don't have the death penalty over here. I don't blame people for being angry.

@Blessex

My DH is Dutch. He says it is happening for 2 reasons.

Firstly they have just (last Friday) imposed a curfew for the first time since the Second World War. Curfew 9pm until 5am. That hasn’t gone down well.

Secondly the vaccine rollout in the Netherlands is the slowest in the EU - half the rate of ave EU. Given the rate in the EU is already slow then this is a snails pace. It was due to being the latest to start because they weren’t ready with their IT and data systems.

Danes don't have that excuse - we're currently the fastest in the EU with the vaccinations (and it's honestly reported as 'started vaccination' for the first jab and 'completed vaccination' for the second.)

No curfew either.

Like I wrote earlier though, the unrest here is nothing in comparison. I think the community is angrier about the people bringing the new SA mutation back from their jollies in Dubai.

@ravenmum

Here in Germany, the people who are sceptical about the lockdown and Covid in general tend to be more right-wing. This picture is currently going round - on the left are the areas where the right-wing AfD party was voted for in 2019, on the right the areas with a high number of Covid infections.

What is the population density like in those areas?

I’m wondering as when I think about here London voted more left iirc but we’ve still been hit hard. It’d be interesting to see in other countries as it may be other variables in mix.

@TheKeatingFive

Would it happen here?

Potentially of course it would.

Do you think locking people down for months at a time and preventing them from seeing family and friends is something that people will put up with indefinitely?

A lot of people are reaching their limits about now.

Exactly. Whilst I wouldn't riot, I'm quietly heartened that it's not just me getting to my limit with all this.

@NewLevelsOfTiredness yep it does look as if the Dutch riots are more severe and widespread than the Danish.

Pity Boris wasnt allowed to keep his water cannons
I am as fed up as hell but what pea brained idiots think riots will make it all go away.
Dont you think the police and hospitals have enough to deal with

I know someone who is egging people on for civil unrest. He talks about herd immunity and when I counter that with the evidence that natural herd immunity isn't going to work here for this virus he gets angry and abusive.

I think that if anyone now wanting riots sits down and looks at the evidence from scientists and comes up with an idea about a way out of this other than social distancing and vaccines, then I am sure that the government will be very pleased to hear their ideas. They don't need to riot.

If people riot there will be more death and more chaos and more financial hardship and more misery.

All the posters who last year said we would all be dead or dying from starvation by last June were wrong. What actually happened was not as bad as they said, even though it has been pretty shite, because so many people rallied together and followed the advice of scientists. Are the same posters all going to come back on here again now, egging people on to ignore social distancing and riot, just as the NHS are facing the worst of it and the vaccines are being rolled out? Crazy.

IF rioting starts here that’s when the shit will really hit the fan. It would put the government in a no win situation with public opinion and have catastrophic consequences.

Our future is not bright regardless of the scenarios on the horizon. The vaccines have got to work because without them we are going to be stuck in this limbo indefinitely.

On vaccine 77000 people there have received it. Plus curfew.

I’d go a bit spare too if we were lagging behind say Europe on numbers

@furonthecoat as someone homeschooling and stuck indoors entertaining little kids I totally agree with everything you say re young people. Good on you.

I mentioned potential rioting on a thread a few months ago and got told that wouldn’t happen. I think it will happen here by March/April when it gets warmer if restrictions are not lifted a bit. I think they will lift restrictions bit by bit because they will have to. I really think they need to come up with something to do during this time period for the young. I mean free remote training/community service that kind of thing. Young people have a lot of energy and need to be kept busy.

@Musicaldilemma

I mentioned potential rioting on a thread a few months ago and got told that wouldn’t happen. I think it will happen here by March/April when it gets warmer if restrictions are not lifted a bit. I think they will lift restrictions bit by bit because they will have to. I really think they need to come up with something to do during this time period for the young. I mean free remote training/community service that kind of thing. Young people have a lot of energy and need to be kept busy.

Will we riot or just mix more? Hard to know.

I know people are at the end of this but what do you do if you are law abiding generally. I am so fed up but what I want to see change - no idea how to get that.

if restrictions are not lifted a bit. I think they will lift restrictions bit by bit because they will have to. I really think they need to come up with something to do during this time period for the young The restrictions are in place only because the new variant is more deadly and more contagious. It is also affecting more young people. Restrictions will be lifted when the population is largely vaccinated and/or cases go down. The government cannot achieve either of those things without people social distancing and being vaccinated in the meantime.

Riots, here we come.

@MarshaBradyo The areas with the highest population densities are in the west, apart from Berlin - some of the areas in the east with very high figures have the lowest populations!
But it does have to do with other factors. Last spring, the numbers in the east were very low as lockdown came to those parts before the virus did. As a result, people in the east didn't believe in the virus, as hardly anyone had it. So they were less careful, and had no problems. But then they continued to be less careful after the virus did arrive, and are now paying for it.

The restrictions are in place only because the new variant is more deadly and more contagious. It is also affecting more young people

The only bit of that that’s proven and significant is that it’s more contagious.

Of course. There have already been protests last summer. People have been effectively under house arrest for the better part of a year. It's affecting children in particular, who seem to be last on anyone's priority list, and it's decimating people's livelihoods.

A more serious issue to my mind is that since last June peaceful protest in the UK has been illegal. This is concerning in any supposed democracy no matter what the reasons it was imposed. Despotic systems always start on the pretext that 'it's for your own good'.

When that comes alongside this new (at least to us) 'report thy neighbour' culture you can quickly end up with a society in which the historical parallels are chilling.

Compliance has been unusually high up until now. IMO It can't last.

You... you know the nurses are crying because of all the sick and dying people they can’t help properly because there are just so many?

Brits need rioting weather. I think businesses will rebel before we see riots.

Oh my word... a Curfew?
That is a move too far.
No wonder people are angry.