Friend saying she’s ignoring lock down from the end of the month.

[Covidcovid]

She’s always being very anti lockdown, citing mental health issues, etc and has just said from next week that’s it. She will do what she wants and take any fines.

I assume she just means visiting family because it’s not like she can go out for lunch or shopping. 🤷‍♀️

But I don’t understand her, she’s an intelligent person and an ex nurse. Her mum is currently very unwell in hospital with covid but she posted the other day that her mum has turned a corner and should hopefully be home soon. So surely she should see if it wasn’t for lockdown then there’s a risk people like her mum may not have got the treatment they needed because the hospitals would have likely being overwhelmed?

If it was me I’d be thankful there had been a lockdown because it wouldn’t have taken much more the way things were going for hospitals to not be able to,offer the current level of care......and in ICU even that isn’t optimal care with stretched ratios.

@Nellodee

Plan A : suppress the virus, make it until a point we are all vaccinated later in the year.

Plan B: Fuck suppression, I'm off to see me mum. Let the virus mutate and spread so that current vaccines are ineffective before we even get the first dose out. Kill more people. Have longer restrictions.

Hmm.... which one should we pick? I just don't know... maybe someone with above average intelligence could advise me?

These are both pretty stupid options.

To be fair, it is perfectly allowed for those who live alone to see their support bubble HildegardeCrowe?

Although there are of course many on MN who would no doubt want all support bubbles removed.

@shindiggery

Yes I know you posit it Pappa but it is a ridiculous thing to posit and I can't even be bothered to posit why because I suspect you could work it out if you were so inclined.

Nope, I don't see why it's ridiculous. You're going to have to tell me.

what if they want to bubble with a parent? What about parents who have to choose which child to bubble with and can't? Spouses who insist "If we see your parents, we have to see mine too?"

Well what about it? Are you suggesting it shouldn't be done because people will have family arguments about it? I thought your argument was exponential growth.

In any case the above is already happening, with people choosing between parents, siblings or DC when deciding their support bubbles.

at this point I really just wish those who are reckless, anti covid, anti vax and generally don't care about this whole shit just would congregate in huge numbers, get sick at home and then those who have something to lose (eg more of our health) could get on with safety measures in a civilized fashion. I'm quite fed up that I'm restricted to my home mostly because many don't have enough braincells to know that either we get it under control together (it hurts, yes) or we just keep prolonging all the measures. Why is it so hard to understand?

Why's she waiting until the end of the month?

at this point I really just wish those who are reckless, anti covid, anti vax and generally don't care about this whole shit just would congregate in huge numbers, get sick at home and then those who have something to lose (eg more of our health) could get on with safety measures in a civilized fashion

This is the whole problem with this shitshow. Black and white thinking. Do you really think that someone who is anti vax, refuses to wear a mask and SD and frequently attends parties with 50 people a pop is the same as someone who visits their parents and no one else?

They aren't the same. It's really helping no one to imply that they are. The government has played a major trump card in getting us to throw shit at one another rather than at them.

I mean I actually don't know why anyone is wanging on about rule breakers at the moment anyway, as the data clearly shows the case numbers are dropping and therefore hospitalisations and deaths should logically also drop in a few weeks. So clearly the rule breakers are in the minority.

@TheSunIsStillShining

at this point I really just wish those who are reckless, anti covid, anti vax and generally don't care about this whole shit just would congregate in huge numbers, get sick at home and then those who have something to lose (eg more of our health) could get on with safety measures in a civilized fashion. I'm quite fed up that I'm restricted to my home mostly because many don't have enough braincells to know that either we get it under control together (it hurts, yes) or we just keep prolonging all the measures. Why is it so hard to understand?

Which group am I to go into @TheSunIsStillShining ? I have to work, as does DH. We haven't broken any rules but we are at risk as we have to work outside of our home?

Presumably we can't join your 'non reckless' group as we are at risk. I assume you'll still want us to pay our taxes though to fund the furlough of the 'non-reckless' , NHS, education etc?

@Paapa

Paapa do you have evidence for your assertion that "most would have died in 2020/21*, because I think that is bullshit.

The average age for covid deaths is pretty much bang on the same as the average life expectancy.

Keep fighting the good fight @Paapa

As frustrating as these conversations are, it does get through to people gradually. I remember these forums during the March lockdown. Utter hysteria. People are calming down and listening to alternative points of view. I see more open conversations on Mumsnet recently. It's a good sign.

There is no end in sight @TheSunIsStillShining. If there were, more people would be compliant.

@TheSunIsStillShining

at this point I really just wish those who are reckless, anti covid, anti vax and generally don't care about this whole shit just would congregate in huge numbers, get sick at home and then those who have something to lose (eg more of our health) could get on with safety measures in a civilized fashion. I'm quite fed up that I'm restricted to my home mostly because many don't have enough braincells to know that either we get it under control together (it hurts, yes) or we just keep prolonging all the measures. Why is it so hard to understand?

Cases are falling pretty quickly

@Paapa

Paapa do you have evidence for your assertion that "most would have died in 2020/21*, because I think that is bullshit.

The average age for covid deaths is pretty much bang on the same as the average life expectancy.

That is not evidence. What you are saying is complete rubbish.

In 2015-17 a person aged 90 could expect to live another 4 - 4.6 years, according to ONS.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/lifeexpectancies/bulletins/nationallifetablesunitedkingdom/2015to2017

*well let's hope she doesn't catch it off you.

There have been many changes in the rules and restrictions in a year.

We had UK holidays in July and Sept.

The brakes are now back on because of the new variant.

You have the nerve to criticise the government, yet you are happy to risk other people's lives with your own behaviour.

Lovely.*

My mum is happy to see me too. I'm not inflicting 'my behaviour' on, or forcing, anybody to do anything they don't want to.

I'm hardly attending a rave.

I've tolerated this for almost a year and I'm done. I will be careful and avoid mixing with groups or multiple people. But I'm absolutely not staying away from my mum any longer considering she feels the same.

Yes I do criticise the government it's been an absolute shit show.

@Paapa

Paapa do you have evidence for your assertion that "most would have died in 2020/21*, because I think that is bullshit.

The average age for covid deaths is pretty much bang on the same as the average life expectancy.

It’s two years more actually.

Average life expectancy is around 81 yes? Someone who has reached 81 years old has an average life expectancy of 89 using the ONS calculator in that link.

^**well let's hope she doesn't catch it off you.

There have been many changes in the rules and restrictions in a year.

We had UK holidays in July and Sept.

The brakes are now back on because of the new variant.

You have the nerve to criticise the government, yet you are happy to risk other people's lives with your own behaviour.

Lovely.**^

My mum is happy to see me too. I'm not inflicting 'my behaviour' on, or forcing, anybody to do anything they don't want to.

I'm hardly attending a rave.

I've tolerated this for almost a year and I'm done. I will be careful and avoid mixing with groups or multiple people. But I'm absolutely not staying away from my mum any longer considering she feels the same.

Yes I do criticise the government it's been an absolute shit show.

The irony of people acting like your friend OP, is that by 'breaking the rules' they will only achieve one thing for certain - making the 'rules' last far longer for everyone. So the thing they kick against - the lockdown - stays for longer than it would have done if they hadn't kicked out.

I am probably being very selfish for thinking as I do. But my first thought when reading about others breaking the rules, is to worry this will mean even longer in lockdown for the rest of us.

I have been shielding with my household since March in order to protect my CEV husband. And we will continue with shielding until we feel it is safe to do otherwise, no matter how long it takes. But it is harder and harder, though hope that once the warm weather gets here it will not seem so depressing. I do physically long to hug my grandson, and our children who have left home, and I miss them so very, very much and the life we used to have together. BUT I will not risk my husband's life.

So I do understand the desperation of some people to see their loved ones again. But as I say, from my own selfish POV I really hope they can hang on a bit longer, in the hope that this does not increase the length of time shielding for the people like us. It makes me feel so scared that so many have reached their limit now, even though I really do understand. I sometimes feel that others will return to normal and we will be the only ones left inside.

The average age for covid deaths is pretty much bang on the same as the average life expectancy.

As frustrating as these conversations are, it does get through to people gradually. I remember these forums during the March lockdown. Utter hysteria. People are calming down and listening to alternative points of view. I see more open conversations on Mumsnet recently. It's a good sign.

Because a bunch of randomers googling self serving right wing websites and demonstrating statistical illiteracy (as above) is so much better than listening to the majority of scientific voices who have spent years gaining their expertise.......

No argument to offer on your version of the Japanese response to Covid I see, because you knew the square root of FA about that reality as well.

@tinselearedcow

Average life expectancy is around 81 yes? Someone who has reached 81 years old has an average life expectancy of 89 using the ONS calculator in that link.

That was for @Paapa.

That is not evidence. What you are saying is complete rubbish.

In 2015-17 a person aged 90 could expect to live another 4 - 4.6 years, according to ONS.

I'm talking about averages though. A 90 year old, by simply existing, in life expectancy terms is not average.

Yes, covid will have taken some years before their time. On average though - nope.

Also people talking about deaths are missing the point. Without being callous about it, it isn't about the deaths, it's about the hospitalisations. And it is not just people in their 80s requiring ICU beds.

@Paapa

That is not evidence. What you are saying is complete rubbish.

In 2015-17 a person aged 90 could expect to live another 4 - 4.6 years, according to ONS.

I'm talking about averages though. A 90 year old, by simply existing, in life expectancy terms is not average.

Yes, covid will have taken some years before their time. On average though - nope.

Again, where is the basis for your assertion that on average most who have died from covid would have "died anyway in 2020 or 2021"? Show me your evidence.

@trulydelicious

OP I hope your 'NHS friend' is minted because she will be landed with plenty of hefty fines

I don’t think she is.....but she mentioned the fines being “unenforceable”. So I do think she’s on cloudy cuckoo land about that.

I know some fines have been overturned such as the daft ones given to the 2 women in Derbyshire walking outside drinking coffee. But if you’re caught out in a more black and white situation then I’d say they’re enforceable. I guess if she’s just planning on visiting her parents then maybe she thinks the risk of being caught is low.