Thread 2 - how long will people make these sacrifices

[DappledOliveGroves]

First thread is full.

If anyone has the willpower to continue arguing, please carry on!

[quote MercyBooth]@MadameBlobby

I watched the programme about Katie Price and Harvey. At the beginning of the programme there was a reminder that some people are mask exempt. So the fact that the BBC felt the need to put that caveat in at the beginning is surely an acknowledgement that mask exemption hatred is a thing.[/quote]
Interesting points in the article about masks
How it reinforces rule followers from none rule followers ( even though people can exempt themselves on medical grounds)

As long as people feel compelled to stick to wearing these hideous , unhygienic death trips there will always be division in society

Quote from article
In order to enhance and sustain normative pressure, people need to be able to instantly distinguish the rule breakers from the rule followers; the visibility of face coverings provides this immediate differentiation. Appearing unmasked in public places can feel comparable to not openly displaying the icon of a dominant religion while being among devout followers. Even if no explicit challenge ensues, the implicit demand to conform is palpable.

We are still getting smug guts saying ‘if only everyone followed the rules we would be out of this quicker’

Seriously? Why do you still believe that other than manipulative media propaganda?

The lack of critical thinking that many adults are showing is scary.

@Worldgonecrazy

We are still getting smug guts saying ‘if only everyone followed the rules we would be out of this quicker’

Seriously? Why do you still believe that other than manipulative media propaganda?

The lack of critical thinking that many adults are showing is scary.

I agree. I worry greatly about the intellect of those who genuinely believe a virus knows if you are following the rules or not.

It's also quite concerning that they dont seem to have the common sense to recognise that most people who currently have covid do so despite following 'the rules'.

I agree so much about the government psychological abuse during lockdown. And the way they have scapegoated young people, and spoke about them with such a lack of respect. They tried to blame young people and students for the spread.

It's even stupid comments like Matt Hancock saying 'octogenarians listen and trust the science'- what so the rest of us are too thick to listen to science then? Although I dispute much of their science. And that comment is patronising to the elderly too.

I keep seeing things about vaccine passports. I'll be damned if as a 32 year, I continue to comply with restrictions that were never about protecting me, who is unlikely to be seriously unwell, whilst watching the people that we sacrificed so much for get to enjoy their freedom again. No chance will I be following any rules if that happens.

I'm not a young adult but I am ashamed of how my generation is treating them. @furonthecoat puts it very well.

The "overrun NHS" argument isn't well thought through. A political decision has been made to prioritise Covid cases over cancer and every other illness. It's an astonishingly irrational way of allocating available health resources. I posted earlier explaining how rationing happens already in terms of new treatments by NICE and the NHS. What's different here? Only the optics - as the car crash analogy up thread neatly illustrated.

It will definitely be interesting following the WHO update re the PCR. Will we have that magical decrease in figures to prove lockdown does work I wonder.

As an aside, I learnt this morning that a friend of mine died. He was poorly, but it really gets me that this was his last year of life. A young man, in his 30s, shielding away from everyone. He couldn't go and do anything as most things were shut. Hell the closest I'll get to saying goodbye is by lining the street as his funeral procession passes by.
Totally, and utterly sick of this BS now.

I keep seeing things about vaccine passports. I'll be damned if as a 32 year, I continue to comply with restrictions that were never about protecting me, who is unlikely to be seriously unwell, whilst watching the people that we sacrificed so much for get to enjoy their freedom again. No chance will I be following any rules if that happens.
Quite. Smacks you in the face doesn't it.

I also really worry about beyond the pandemic, in future winters, what expectations will be placed, at least by some sections of society on the rest of us.

People are so obsessed now with stopping the spread of coronavirus, 'don't kill granny', that there will be some who clamour for masks to be worn every winter, social distancing every year. A few months ago I felt fairly certain that things would return to normal in this regard but now I'm not so sure- there seem to be many who would continue with some elements of lockdown, to 'prevent all deaths' indefinitely.

The 'don't kill granny' message is disgusting- psychological abuse at its worst. On one thread, someone compared infecting someone with coronavirus to deliberately infecting someone with HIV. The use of language and hyperbole around coronavirus has got so extreme and out of hand. What message does it send to our kids, that they're responsible for 'killing granny'?

@Neron I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. I agree, what an awful way to spend the last year of his life. Very very sad.

The pcr test was never intended to be used in this way

Neither was Pfizer's vaccine But don't worry if PCR changes happen in light of WHO advice and it's asked what it was all for ... they can always claim they were "following the science"

To the people saying about other operations being cancelled/delayed. I get where you are coming from. But if come out of lockdown and let the virus run riot, the NHS will have even less capacity to carry out operations

Unfortunately there's little benefit left in telling folk something may not be available to them when they know perfectly well that it isn't anyway - except in dire emergency, and good luck even then

Apologies for mentioning this yet again, but in many ways that ship sailed over the summer with cases on the floor and still no NHS services in many areas. Strange that nobody ever comments about that despite the number of times it's been raised

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind thank you. I feel his family have been denied so much because of this.

The don't kill granny message is awful. It's disturbing we play these mind games.
The fact is, we have a large portion of people who have lost so much, and a more vocal population who haven't lost anything - in fact most are better off. Until those people experience some of the hardships this pandemic has caused others, I don't think any of the messages like killing granny will go away.

The more people who complain to the ASA the better. It makes it more likely.

I notice the moaning about obesity has started.

Funnily enough i havent found looking and feeling like a scruffbag conducive to healthy eating. When i started going back to the hairdressers regularly in September the pounds started coming off again. Last appointment was meant to be two weeks ago. Now i feel scruffy again.

My most loathed word of lockdown is 'resilient'. Amazing how easy it is to be resilient when you have secure, adequate housing, are still employed and no disabilities

Completely agree - along with "safe" and "selfish".

The ASA have insisted that an ad citing that joggers have Covid 19 be pulled. And they are also considering ads involving supermarket trolleys and takeaway coffee
www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/government-pulls-ad-states-joggers-highly-likely-covid-19/1705305

I hadn't seen this - off to investigate! Thank you. As a virus shedding jogger myself...

Personally I am done with all this. There seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel as the Government seem to be taking one step forward, another two back in relation to lockdowns, opening businesses up then closing them and locking down again.
I am homeschooling my kids as well as working from home. I am at breaking point, I am getting daily emails from the school about how many hours of schooling the kids needs to do whilst trying to juggle my workload. My 6 year old I have to sit with whilst he does his work as he does not find school work easy and needs support.
I know we've got to protect the vulnerable and elderly, but who is looking out for the kids, people with mental health issues and business owners?! I've seen in my job the amount of people that are coming to the attention of the mental health team when they were previously unknown has increased greatly. I live in a small town and the amount of businesses that have gone under is frightening. I feel for those people who have lost their livelihood.
Rant over, I am having a gin.

[quote Neron]@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind thank you. I feel his family have been denied so much because of this.

The don't kill granny message is awful. It's disturbing we play these mind games.
The fact is, we have a large portion of people who have lost so much, and a more vocal population who haven't lost anything - in fact most are better off. Until those people experience some of the hardships this pandemic has caused others, I don't think any of the messages like killing granny will go away.[/quote]
I’m in a very comfortable position. I’m also a granny of 18 years now..I honestly don’t want anyone giving their social lives up for me.
I absolutely fucking hate what’s been done to us.
My dh is the same.
I’ll fight tooth and nail to get our lives back on track to as they were in 2019

I really don’t know how much life I have left but I hope to goodness I get some good years before I breathe my last.
I was so done with this bs in March.

In fact, I’ve just come back from a combined trip to b and m, the range , home bargains on a big retail park, so shopping and exercise combined and honestly
It’s like virus?
What virus.
No one gives a flying fuck
Most are wearing masks ..probably because they have to.
People are just done with it now.

@Camellashes

Personally I am done with all this. There seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel as the Government seem to be taking one step forward, another two back in relation to lockdowns, opening businesses up then closing them and locking down again. I am homeschooling my kids as well as working from home. I am at breaking point, I am getting daily emails from the school about how many hours of schooling the kids needs to do whilst trying to juggle my workload. My 6 year old I have to sit with whilst he does his work as he does not find school work easy and needs support. I know we've got to protect the vulnerable and elderly, but who is looking out for the kids, people with mental health issues and business owners?! I've seen in my job the amount of people that are coming to the attention of the mental health team when they were previously unknown has increased greatly. I live in a small town and the amount of businesses that have gone under is frightening. I feel for those people who have lost their livelihood. Rant over, I am having a gin.

When I see posts like this, I could weep. Life should not be that hard.

Me and dh rattle around in our house..most days m we could so easily help out with kids for an hour or two a day as the grandkids are quite self sufficient .
I’m sure there are lots of grandparents who would help unrelated parents.
We just happen to not know any.

It makes me sad and angry in equal measures over what parents, families, elderly and disabled and single people have been reduced to.

I'm done with it all.

Once my parents have had a vaccine I'm allowing myself to have a life again. We live with them because for the past three years my life has been an absolute shit show- I finally managed to leave an abusive marriage, had to start my whole life again, in the face of continued abuse from my ex (long story), go back to work. And despite how fucking hard it all was I felt like I had a life again. The things that got me through the hard times, going to the office, seeing my friends and socialising for the first time in years, making new ones. All gone. Got a new job (which is now potentially looking a little precarious) during lockdown and it's been hard enough working entirely from home anyway (whilst the kids are off school). If that's gone too, well if I didn't have my kids I don't know what would keep me going. My mental health is on the floor. I had 18 months of being free from my ex before the first lockdown. It's like being imprisoned again. Once my parents have the vaccine I'm going on tinder dates, I'm seeing my friends without distancing if they want to, making sure my kids see their friends, whatever is physically possible for me to do I'll be doing it. And I couldn't give a flying fuck if anyone comes on here and calls me selfish for it.

I wasn't ever against the original lockdown or taking some measures to stop this but this has gone on for too long and hurt far too many people in other ways, in ways in which it will never be possible to recover from. The measures went way too far- I'm thinking in particular of telling people in relationships who lived in different households that they weren't allowed to see each other. And also making it effectively illegal for people to start new relationships. All very easy for married people to scream about following the rules- I wonder how they'd feel to perhaps be single in their 30s, hoping to find someone to start a family with, and it basically being made illegal. It goes too far. If I was in that position there's no way I'd have paid attention to that particular rule at any point.

Good for you @StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind
Hope you get your man..and as a comfortable oldie, you certainly have my blessing.
Although I’m sure you don’t need it.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

I also really worry about beyond the pandemic, in future winters, what expectations will be placed, at least by some sections of society on the rest of us.

People are so obsessed now with stopping the spread of coronavirus, 'don't kill granny', that there will be some who clamour for masks to be worn every winter, social distancing every year. A few months ago I felt fairly certain that things would return to normal in this regard but now I'm not so sure- there seem to be many who would continue with some elements of lockdown, to 'prevent all deaths' indefinitely.

The 'don't kill granny' message is disgusting- psychological abuse at its worst. On one thread, someone compared infecting someone with coronavirus to deliberately infecting someone with HIV. The use of language and hyperbole around coronavirus has got so extreme and out of hand. What message does it send to our kids, that they're responsible for 'killing granny'?

Indeed, this all concerns me too. I think the damage that has been done, no one has any idea how long it will take to reverse. I'm pretty sceptical about the whole masks, social distancing, save the NHS thing that's been pounded into my brain since March. But even I watch TV shows now and think, god, they're sitting quite closely. I wonder if that's how conditioned I am, how is my mother in law who clearly has massive health anxiety over this going to cope when restrictions finally end. I honestly think she'll still be terrified to go to the shops months after having the vaccine. I digress, but what worries me is not the virus, but is how easy people have been to manipulate, divide and conquer and turn against each other.

Having said that, I do feel the tide is finally turning. Compared to the constant IT'S A VIRUS, NO YOU CAN'T GO FOR A WALK/COFFEE/BE TREATED FOR A VIRUS/HAVE YOUR HUMAN RIGHT TO AN EDUCATION threads that have been present on mumsnet for nearly a year, there's not a lot more, this is bullshit, I'm not going to put up with it, I don't trust the Government threads than there have ever been. So I hold faith that common sense will (in the end) prevail. Cos I'm not wearing a fucking mask a minute longer than I have to.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind

I also really worry about beyond the pandemic, in future winters, what expectations will be placed, at least by some sections of society on the rest of us.

People are so obsessed now with stopping the spread of coronavirus, 'don't kill granny', that there will be some who clamour for masks to be worn every winter, social distancing every year. A few months ago I felt fairly certain that things would return to normal in this regard but now I'm not so sure- there seem to be many who would continue with some elements of lockdown, to 'prevent all deaths' indefinitely.

The 'don't kill granny' message is disgusting- psychological abuse at its worst. On one thread, someone compared infecting someone with coronavirus to deliberately infecting someone with HIV. The use of language and hyperbole around coronavirus has got so extreme and out of hand. What message does it send to our kids, that they're responsible for 'killing granny'?

You've got me thinking.

So somehow, in a very short space of time, the window of political possibility has been shifted massively.

So now the state can decree your hospitality, personal care or sports business illegal, even if sentient adults decide they'll take the risk of using your business, forbid you from being within 2 metres of a relative, close schools funded by the tax base and the list goes on and on.

All of this would have been utterly unthinkable 13 months ago.

Now that all of these things are up for grabs, within the Overton window, I'm also concerned we'll be pushed down this slippery slope again.

Not a covid denier, it clearly makes people very ill and takes lives and irrationally, we are using all our health resources on it to the detriment of other conditions. However, smoking, alcohol and sugar kill many more ... year after year after year, so it can't be just the fact that people are dying that has caused this shift, can it?

Sorry, that should say, be treated for cancer

Just seen your next post, yeah add "forbid you from starting a new relationship" to the utterly outrageous "verboten" list.

As soon as you want to I think you should invent a new "tinder dates" bubble. It makes as much sense as the rest of the BS.

@Dowser you sound lovely

@Dowser

Good for you *@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind* Hope you get your man..and as a comfortable oldie, you certainly have my blessing. Although I’m sure you don’t need it.

Bless you Dowser 💐

Pre pandemic I had a lovely 22 yr old 'friend' (would be a stretch to call him boyfriend 😂) haha how I've missed him since that ended!

Once my parents are vaccinated I'm going to find another one and have some fun again.

And I'll admit here, I didn't exactly behave like a nun last summer either. I'm sure someone will be along to burn me at the stake soon enough but I don't care.