Thread 2 - how long will people make these sacrifices

[DappledOliveGroves]

First thread is full.

If anyone has the willpower to continue arguing, please carry on!

Relative is in hospital, very unwell (not Covid) and may not see them again. Last saw them in autumn, when I broke rules because I hadn’t seen them since March.

If they pass away, I’m done.

After my friends passing last night and myself suffering I need to see my family

I didn't realise that if I can get my BMI up to clinically obese I can get an earlier vaccine. Woohoo. Bring on the cheesecake.

I'm being facetious.

But in a way, losing weight and taking exercise is a "restriction" albeit a healthy one, it's me doing something to minimise my risks and reduce the chances of my ever needing a covid bed.

Should I just not bother?

Thanks dappledolive
I didn’t know whether we’d be going in for round two.
But now Perfect 28 has removed herself from the arena, we can all continue discussing this topic in peace.

Spirited away..I’m really sorry to hear about you losing your friend. Yes you need to see your family . Don’t feel guilt tripped into not doing so by anyone else calling you selfish.
It’s a huge loss.
I lost mine last week and as he lives so far away, I never got a visit to see him last year.

@Peanutquavers123

Relative is in hospital, very unwell (not Covid) and may not see them again. Last saw them in autumn, when I broke rules because I hadn’t seen them since March.

If they pass away, I’m done.

Oh no. I understood that anyone who had limited time left could see a loved one. I’d fight for that chance to do that.

Thanks everyone for joining round 2. I'm now on the wine, since there is little else to do in life.

I hate the relentlessness bleak future. I hate that my mother will have no idea who I am when I finally can see her, whenever the care home opens up. I hate that I haven't seen my daughter for almost a year because she lives in Australia (though I'm so grateful she is out there having a blast and enjoying freedom).

But what still scares me the most is the compliance among so many, for the lockdowns, where anyone questioning the wisdom is accused of being a sociopath or similar.

@barretbonden

I didn't realise that if I can get my BMI up to clinically obese I can get an earlier vaccine. Woohoo. Bring on the cheesecake.

I'm being facetious.

But in a way, losing weight and taking exercise is a "restriction" albeit a healthy one, it's me doing something to minimise my risks and reduce the chances of my ever needing a covid bed.

Should I just not bother?

Omg this made lol

how long are you willing to maintain this status quo?

Until the elderly and clinically vulnerable have been vaccinated. And not a second longer!!

If they try to force this on us next winter I’ll protest. And if they use the NHS being overwhelmed as a reason I wouldn’t accept this, as all the moment they are pumping by into furlough could be pumped into equipping the nhs.

This has gone on for long enough now.

Thank you for the new thread, DappledOliveGroves

Place marking

But what still scares me the most is the compliance among so many, for the lockdowns, where anyone questioning the wisdom is accused of being a sociopath or similar.

Completely agree. We are all now only allowed to think one way.

What about all of the damage lockdown is doing? My toddler thinks masks and limited social contact are normal!! Families are being forced to use food banks. People are isolated with many becoming mentally ill.

Who is sticking up for these people?

Do you just feel like going
Yada, yada, yada,
No one is listening.

www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
At my town today today, it’s like lockdown? What lockdown?
Loads of people at the beach.
Tesco car park pretty full.
Aldi pretty full
Still felt very safe.

I didn’t read the whole of the other thread (and forgive me if these have been answered) but some things interest me. While I can understand people’s frustrations, I’m not sure I understand, for instance, “The life of a young person is, in my eyes, more valuable than that of someone in their 80s or 90s.” How do you make such a judgement? Valuable to who? Let’s face it, most of us don’t do anything amazingly wonderful with our lives, we don’t end poverty or disease. We really don’t contribute to society as a whole - we just potter along. In fact, some young people are truly evil. Why is someone’s life more important based purely on their age? The new American president is 78, he’s spent 50 odd years in public service and, whether or not you agree with his politics, I bet he’s contributed more to society than the vast majority of posters on this thread.

I also don’t really understand people saying they’re not going to do ‘it’ anymore, they want their children to have a normal life. While I understand this, I’m rather confused as to how people think that’s actually going to happen when teachers (understandably) seem to be a little reluctant to go back to working as usual when they might catch this pesky virus.

Even if people won’t make the sacrifices anymore and rebel, I don’t see how life is going to miraculously go back to normal. The shops will still be closed, cinemas and theatres won’t suddenly reopen - many in these areas are older (actors tend not to retire).

Personally, although I miss my friends and family, I’d rather wait a bit longer and give the vaccines a proper chance.

Disclaimer: I don’t even have a BA, let alone an MA and LLP. I can only do the quick crossword in The Times, not the cryptic (although I know practice helps). I do have a daughter in her first year of uni, living alone in a strange city where she didn’t know anyone. She’s coping okay - I am very proud of her.

@Someonetookmyname

how long are you willing to maintain this status quo?

Until the elderly and clinically vulnerable have been vaccinated. And not a second longer!!

If they try to force this on us next winter I’ll protest. And if they use the NHS being overwhelmed as a reason I wouldn’t accept this, as all the moment they are pumping by into furlough could be pumped into equipping the nhs.

This has gone on for long enough now.

Indeed.

Though all the protests to date have appeared to be by deniers and the-vaccine-has-microchips types

Perhaps Sumption will organise one?

I will keep complying as long as needed, as guided by the science.

If I need emergency healthcare, I want our health care service to be available. I don't want to die from a treatable disease because there is no space or no staff. To me it's a no brainer. I know people are missing out on treatment, but this would only get worse without lockdown.

I'm aware lockdown is causing misery for all, some more than others. I'm aware of the economic hardship.

But lifting lockdown will cause a new kind of misery, plus economic problems. There's no magic wand.

We are nearly there now. Light at the end of the tunnel.

@lovelylittlepanda this is a major frustration. One friend of mine has fallen completely down the conspiracy-theory rabbit hole, posts bizarre things on Facebook and seems to think Covid is fictional. Whilst I like her very much, I don't believe that this is a conspiracy theory, or that Bill Gates wants to control us (though if he does I'd love him to impart his intellect and business acumen and then perhaps I could make a few million and retire early).

There are some broadcasters who don't agree with the lockdown - I like Julia Hartley-Brewer (though we disagree on Brexit) - but almost everyone is willing to toe the party line.

I don't know if things will simply turn into quiet rebellion, with people meeting in others' houses and having dinner together, or if there will be an eruption of fury. We shall see.

@Mouldiwarp1

I didn’t read the whole of the other thread (and forgive me if these have been answered) but some things interest me. While I can understand people’s frustrations, I’m not sure I understand, for instance, “The life of a young person is, in my eyes, more valuable than that of someone in their 80s or 90s.” How do you make such a judgement? Valuable to who? Let’s face it, most of us don’t do anything amazingly wonderful with our lives, we don’t end poverty or disease. We really don’t contribute to society as a whole - we just potter along. In fact, some young people are truly evil. Why is someone’s life more important based purely on their age? The new American president is 78, he’s spent 50 odd years in public service and, whether or not you agree with his politics, I bet he’s contributed more to society than the vast majority of posters on this thread.

I also don’t really understand people saying they’re not going to do ‘it’ anymore, they want their children to have a normal life. While I understand this, I’m rather confused as to how people think that’s actually going to happen when teachers (understandably) seem to be a little reluctant to go back to working as usual when they might catch this pesky virus.

Even if people won’t make the sacrifices anymore and rebel, I don’t see how life is going to miraculously go back to normal. The shops will still be closed, cinemas and theatres won’t suddenly reopen - many in these areas are older (actors tend not to retire).

Personally, although I miss my friends and family, I’d rather wait a bit longer and give the vaccines a proper chance.

Disclaimer: I don’t even have a BA, let alone an MA and LLP. I can only do the quick crossword in The Times, not the cryptic (although I know practice helps). I do have a daughter in her first year of uni, living alone in a strange city where she didn’t know anyone. She’s coping okay - I am very proud of her.

How long are you prepared to wait? Re value of 80-90 olds - yes, every life is precious, but they can isolate, they got pensions, paid off mortgages. What do young people got now to look for?

@DappledOliveGroves

Thanks everyone for joining round 2. I'm now on the wine, since there is little else to do in life.

I hate the relentlessness bleak future. I hate that my mother will have no idea who I am when I finally can see her, whenever the care home opens up. I hate that I haven't seen my daughter for almost a year because she lives in Australia (though I'm so grateful she is out there having a blast and enjoying freedom).

But what still scares me the most is the compliance among so many, for the lockdowns, where anyone questioning the wisdom is accused of being a sociopath or similar.

See I genuinely think that anyone who supports these lockdowns without questioning is a sociopath for not looking at or caring about the harms coming to people from them. My limit has been totally reached, but there is nothing to go and do. Everywhere is shut, my children can’t go and play a tennis or rugby match, let alone go to school. This misery is overwhelming

I’ve lost it today, I was very positive for the last year but tonight I’m angry and frustrated!

*Though all the protests to date have appeared to be by deniers and the-vaccine-has-microchips types hmm

Perhaps Sumption will organise one?*

Or even a mass petition would be good. So many of us probably think lockdown has gone too far, but aren’t vocalising these views publicly or on social media. The government probably thinks it has way more support for lockdown than it actually does.

Starting to feel like we live in a totalitarian state where everyone thinks the regime is nuts but won’t say it.

We are nearly there now. Light at the end of the tunnel.

I watched the press briefing tonight and I see no light at the end of any tunnel, just more of the same

I'm glad there's a thread like this. I've lost all patient with everyone on Mumsnet today. Everyone's terrified.

Does anyone think there's a high proportion of people in society today, who are mildly agoraphobic or socially anxious and are actually quite happy with the situation?

This article was interesting on the topic:

reliantmedicalgroup.org/blog/2020/09/28/agoraphobia-could-be-a-hidden-danger-of-covid-19-pandemic/

Being forced to stay at home, no pressure to do anything, meet anyone, do any activities? It honestly seems to suit some people. Particularly if one hasn't been financially impacted by Covid?

It just blows my mind that people are willing to do this, for so long, with zero end in sight?

@Mouldiwarp1

I didn’t read the whole of the other thread (and forgive me if these have been answered) but some things interest me. While I can understand people’s frustrations, I’m not sure I understand, for instance, “The life of a young person is, in my eyes, more valuable than that of someone in their 80s or 90s.” How do you make such a judgement? Valuable to who? Let’s face it, most of us don’t do anything amazingly wonderful with our lives, we don’t end poverty or disease. We really don’t contribute to society as a whole - we just potter along. In fact, some young people are truly evil. Why is someone’s life more important based purely on their age? The new American president is 78, he’s spent 50 odd years in public service and, whether or not you agree with his politics, I bet he’s contributed more to society than the vast majority of posters on this thread.

I also don’t really understand people saying they’re not going to do ‘it’ anymore, they want their children to have a normal life. While I understand this, I’m rather confused as to how people think that’s actually going to happen when teachers (understandably) seem to be a little reluctant to go back to working as usual when they might catch this pesky virus.

Even if people won’t make the sacrifices anymore and rebel, I don’t see how life is going to miraculously go back to normal. The shops will still be closed, cinemas and theatres won’t suddenly reopen - many in these areas are older (actors tend not to retire).

Personally, although I miss my friends and family, I’d rather wait a bit longer and give the vaccines a proper chance.

Disclaimer: I don’t even have a BA, let alone an MA and LLP. I can only do the quick crossword in The Times, not the cryptic (although I know practice helps). I do have a daughter in her first year of uni, living alone in a strange city where she didn’t know anyone. She’s coping okay - I am very proud of her.

See I genuinely don't understand people who think that someone dying in their 80s or 90s is the same as a young person.

It's not about 'worth'. It's about that in the 21st century, we have a very high life expectancy, but nothing changes the fact that everyone dies. If people are lucky, they get old before that happens. They get the chance to live a long and full life, study, have a career they (hopefully) enjoy, travel, get married and have children, grandchildren, and now given the age people regularly live to, great grandchildren too. And all the other things that we enjoy throughout our lives. In short, they have a 'fair' amount of time'. And it comes down to, better a 90 year old dies than a 9 year old. And the absolute worst thing in the world must be for a child to die before you. It's certainly my biggest fear in life.

It's not 'worth', everyone matters, everyone should be treated with respect and valued, whether they're 9 or 99. But a 9 year old dying is a tragedy, a 99 year old dying is of course sad for the people who loved them but IMO it's not something that should be difficult to accept.

I've had three family members die of cancer in their 20s and 30s. It's incredibly hard to 'accept', and feels so bloody unfair, and they were robbed of so much life. When my grandparents died in their 80s/90s I was of course sad because I love them but they were elderly, it's part of life, I could accept it.

I really do get tired of this being framed as being about 'worth' because i just don't think it is.

We are nearly there now. Light at the end of the tunnel.
When was it I last heard that? Last June perhaps, in honour of "we can turn this virus around in another twelve weeks"? And another, and another, and another, and another? Then again in September, then again in December? And what will it be this Easter? "Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease be patient for another six years"?

I'm sure the government are monitoring the public mood closely; and at the moment they're thinking "yep, the plebs are happy, they're believing everything we tell them, we can keep throwing more and more bad news at them to keep them depressed and docile, no danger of any riots yet." Hence the drip, drip, drip of lockdown being extended, public saying sadly "yeah".

I'm sure that when it suits the government, they'll swiftly change the now-gloomy narrative to "loooooooooooook!!! The vaccine is working!!!" But as they're so behind the curve with everything, it won't be until long after the mass disobedience has started. What's the point in the vaccine, if it's NOT going make things better? Or is it the government telling it's not going to, to better control public behaviour? Why do we allow our highly paid leaders to gaslight and brainwash us like this?

I'm almost glad about the news of that big wedding being raided: not because the police succeeded in catching them, but evidence that there is some resistance to the brainwashing, and conditioning us to accept all this as "normal".

And again, why are we so obsessed with prolonging life? Wasn't the narrative a few years ago "the world is overpopulated"? At the moment we are being kept alive for an utterly joyless existence, like lab rats. We are born, and we will die: but the bit in the middle is called LIVING. At the moment, we are not allowed to do that, and they keep hinting that this will go on for a long time, while throwing "there is hope" into it.

As for "the government is looking after us": as CS Lewis said, tyrannical regimes in the name of health or safety are worse in a way than those in the name of evil: because the dictators are doing it with the full blessing of their consciences and "it's the right thing to do"; whereas an evil dictator might suddenly be conscience-stricken, and relent.

[quote DappledOliveGroves]@lovelylittlepanda this is a major frustration. One friend of mine has fallen completely down the conspiracy-theory rabbit hole, posts bizarre things on Facebook and seems to think Covid is fictional. Whilst I like her very much, I don't believe that this is a conspiracy theory, or that Bill Gates wants to control us (though if he does I'd love him to impart his intellect and business acumen and then perhaps I could make a few million and retire early).

There are some broadcasters who don't agree with the lockdown - I like Julia Hartley-Brewer (though we disagree on Brexit) - but almost everyone is willing to toe the party line.

I don't know if things will simply turn into quiet rebellion, with people meeting in others' houses and having dinner together, or if there will be an eruption of fury. We shall see.[/quote]
Thank you, I've not really seen any comments from Julia Hartley-Brewer. Vaguely remember some controversy involving her that was all very tit for tat but won't hold it against at her ;-)

Have seen some hilarious memes about Bill rubbing his hands together now he has control over Margaret Keenan and most of the over 80s and care homes residents.

I have those friends too, funny isn't it?
One who is very keen to engage me in debates about how we should refuse the vaccine and I delight in shrugging and saying that my position is "not necessary to decide" (we are both under 50), which infuriates her!