Thread 2 - how long will people make these sacrifices

[DappledOliveGroves]

First thread is full.

If anyone has the willpower to continue arguing, please carry on!

@TheKeatingFive

Well. If we all thought in WW2 "I'm soo fed up with the blackout and not seeing my friends" then we'd have been in a mess.

People weren’t isolated in WW2 the way they are now. People get strength and comfort from others. That’s been denied them.

Yeah, of course. Fathers, husbands sons didn't go off to fight then? Or children evacuated??

I think it's easier just not to reply to people who come on here to fight. There are a million other threads we can discuss it rationally with them.

It would lovely if this one could just be for people who aren't really coping that well with continued lockdowns with no end in sight. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Yeah, of course. Fathers, husbands sons didn't go off to fight then? Or children evacuated??

Did I say that? No.

People were not prevented from going to their neighbours/friends/family for solidarity and comfort.

@User2921

I think most people have already lost their appetite for 'sacrifice' tbh.

The first time round people seemed to embrace the idea of doing a 'good thing' to help the nurses, protect 'the vulnerable' and so on.

Now, the novelty has very much worn off, we are bored and miserable.

IME most people are only as compliant as they have to be, because places are closed, or they fear the consequences if caught breaking the law. They take every opportunity to grasp a bit of normality and social interaction.

It's only on here that people seem to still be fully embracing the idea of indefinite restrictions, I don't see this is RL at all.

And as for the obsession with policing and judging others, and for making up extra rules for themselves that happens on here, I don't know anyone who does this. Thankfully.

Exactly I don’t see much compliance here People do whatever they have to do to get by Masks in shops See family whenever

Totally agree, we've stuck to the rules and still caught it.

To the utter dismay of all those who like to play at being the covid police the vast majority of those catching covid have stuck to the rules. However that doesn't make for an interesting argument so they conviniently ignore it.

As soon as the government downgraded it on their .gov website on March 19
I knew I was done.

@Same4Walls

Totally agree, we've stuck to the rules and still caught it.

To the utter dismay of all those who like to play at being the covid police the vast majority of those catching covid have stuck to the rules. However that doesn't make for an interesting argument so they conviniently ignore it.

Neighbour who wfh, hardly left the house caught it. Yet so many people who’ve been out and about, mixed with people Have been fine.

“ If only we’d spent a small fraction of the money that goes into locking down into strengthening the nhs”

100% agree.

The WW2 comparisons are interesting because to me, it seems that being pro-lockdown is the extreme opposite of the bravery and commitment shown by many during the war. So many people during the war faced the threat of death day in and day out, a real threat and yet they carried on their jobs, they did what was needed to care for children and provide education, they kept businesses going, they kept life going as much a humanly possible, often in terrible and terrifying conditions. Even those in concentration camps found a way to provide their children with a tiny sense of normality and joy.

Yet here we are with a virus that is of little or no threat to children and we can't seem to find a way to provide any sort of life for them. After nearly a year, no one has managed to put any thought into how the needs of the next generation can be met while this crisis is dealt with. Teachers have simply refused to do their duty, because they're scared. It is horrifically, crushingly disappointing that my generation, the generation with the bulk of responsibility for getting the world through and caring for future citizens is so incredibly lacking in ingenuity and inventiveness, that the only response that they can seem to come up with is 'run and hide and fuck the kids.' It's pathetic.

If only we’d spent a small fraction of the money that goes into locking down into strengthening the nhs. That’s what I don’t understand.

@TheKeatingFive because it takes years to train suitable people. I work in the NHS. We always have vacancies. Always. The government actively recruits healthcare staff from abroad to fill vacancies.

A few years ago, the government cut the bursary for student nurses, meaning even fewer nurses now.

Yeah, of course. Fathers, husbands sons didn't go off to fight then? Or children evacuated??

@crossstitchingnana the soldiers and evacuated children weren't being asked to stay away from other human beings as if they were lepers, and avoid normal human contact. Im pretty sure the soldiers sought comfort in friendship when away from home. Completely different.

@TheDailyCarbunkle

The WW2 comparisons are interesting because to me, it seems that being pro-lockdown is the extreme opposite of the bravery and commitment shown by many during the war. So many people during the war faced the threat of death day in and day out, a real threat and yet they carried on their jobs, they did what was needed to care for children and provide education, they kept businesses going, they kept life going as much a humanly possible, often in terrible and terrifying conditions. Even those in concentration camps found a way to provide their children with a tiny sense of normality and joy.

Yet here we are with a virus that is of little or no threat to children and we can't seem to find a way to provide any sort of life for them. After nearly a year, no one has managed to put any thought into how the needs of the next generation can be met while this crisis is dealt with. Teachers have simply refused to do their duty, because they're scared. It is horrifically, crushingly disappointing that my generation, the generation with the bulk of responsibility for getting the world through and caring for future citizens is so incredibly lacking in ingenuity and inventiveness, that the only response that they can seem to come up with is 'run and hide and fuck the kids.' It's pathetic.

Strong words. But I think I have to agree with you!

Even those in concentration camps found a way to provide their children with a tiny sense of normality and joy.

I'm sorry but I cannot believe how crass a comment that is.

No matter how crap things are right now, and I agree the WW2 comparisons are ridiculous, to suggest parents now are in a worse place than parents in concentration camps to be able to provide normality and joy for our children is disgusting.

And I am someone who very much questions continued lockdowns and agrees with pretty much everything said on this thread but that was an awful comment.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind She's obviously not saying parents have it worse than a parent in a concentration camp!

She's saying that in times of extreme stress and horror, people in concentration camps during WW2 tried to help their children feel normal by continuing with the rituals of life.

Whereas now, everyone's just hiding at home, indefinitely.

@Someonetookmyname

But what still scares me the most is the compliance among so many, for the lockdowns, where anyone questioning the wisdom is accused of being a sociopath or similar.

Completely agree. We are all now only allowed to think one way.

What about all of the damage lockdown is doing? My toddler thinks masks and limited social contact are normal!! Families are being forced to use food banks. People are isolated with many becoming mentally ill.

Who is sticking up for these people?

Wasn't going to bother but this - "Completely agree. We are all now only allowed to think one way." is the same sort of shit as all those wankers screeching about being silenced from their shows on LBC or their columns in the Spectator.

Of course you can think what you want. Whatever you want, especially in the privacy of your own head.

What YOU want though is to be able to spout any old bollocks and not have other people pointing out that it's bollocks.

No.

Here for Round 2 (thanks for starting this, Dappled - I had hoped you might).

I had composed a reply to one of the more irritating posters on the previous thread; it's probably just as well I didn't get chance to add it!

*"Teachers have simply refused to do their duty, because they're scared.""

Be ashamed of yourself @TheDailyCarbunkle.

Teachers are still working, many of them trying to do in person teaching at the same time as remote lesson planning.

A completely shitty thing to say.

@wanderings you're right about the language it was indeed 'may' be, I was being sloppy.

My point is the timing and the control. I have no doubt about the research, that it exists and so on, just think the timing is so very convenient once again and is being used as part of a pattern of conditioning.

[quote hollyangel]@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind She's obviously not saying parents have it worse than a parent in a concentration camp!

She's saying that in times of extreme stress and horror, people in concentration camps during WW2 tried to help their children feel normal by continuing with the rituals of life.

Whereas now, everyone's just hiding at home, indefinitely. [/quote]
Yes I realise she's not saying parents have it worse.

The comment suggested we are in a worse position than parents in concentration camps to give our children normality at the moment and I'm sorry but that is just complete bollocks.

I hate this situation and like I said, I don't believe in continued lockdowns and am concerned very much for children's education, socialisation right now. But that comparison in being in the position to give normality does not stand up. We are not being systematically murdered ffs, actually dragged away from families, from homes. Our children are not witnessing the horror that those children did. To talk about 'normality' in those terms is crass.

Placemarking

People really need to stop comparing this with WW2. None of us were even alive. It doesnt make how hard I am finding life now irrelevant. Its like when our parents said 'Dont moan about broccoli. It could be worse. You could be a starving child in Africa'. I still bloody hated broccoli.

I wonder if the people during WW2 were told 'you cant complain. People didnt complain during WW1'. Bet they did. Bet everyone was miserable. Bet they would be miserable now too.

You made me laugh, Twirping. My mum's response when I was complaining that my broken wrist hurt was "well, just imagine how you'd feel if you were an amputee".

I also had the Starving Ethiopians thing. I still hated cold Sunday lunch leftovers.

@imation and @StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind. I wasn’t the one who originally mentioned the ‘value’ or ‘worth’ of life, I just picked up on it. I’ve repeatedly seen over the past year how young people’s lives have been declared to be more important than older people. I’m not talking about children here. My point really is that I think it’s unreasonable to judge people’s value based entirely on their age - it’s too simplistic, too black and white. I’m damn sure, for instance, that both David Attenborough and Judy Dench have contributed far more to the world than I have or ever will.

As I also said, I have a 20 year old at uni - I’m gutted that her first year won’t be as it should be, but equally I know that this will hopefully be a small blip in what should be a long life. Yes, she’ll likely be paying a lot of tax to pay for it and so will I for the next few years, but shit happens. In 1979 basic rate income tax was about 34% (I know it’s not directly comparable, but just to give an idea).

The world changes, life changes. Humanity as a species is highly resilient and adaptable. How long can I personally keep it up? I don’t know, but I do know I’d rather give the vaccines a fighting chance now that there’s possibly a light at the end of the tunnel.

I’m heartily sick of it all, but so far nothing I’ve read or heard has convinced me that letting COVID run freely, would be a good idea. I can’t help thinking of how much more awful it would be if half the lorry drivers, supermarket staff, factory workers, etc, got too sick to go to work. I really don’t think it’s ever been about saving lives or even the NHS at all, it’s about keeping the country functioning.

@DappledOliveGroves

I wish I could have blind faith in the vaccines. Given there's doubt as to their efficacy with new strains, in addition to the fact they're not being rolled out with 3 week intervals but instead based on an arbitrary and untested regime, then forgive me if I don't have great faith that things will suddenly get better.

@DappledOliveGroves I'm also cynical. The Israelis have started saying they don't think Pfizer is as effective in actual deployment as it was in the trials ... but that's based one jab. They're actually following the schedule there though.