Thread 2 - how long will people make these sacrifices

[DappledOliveGroves]

First thread is full.

If anyone has the willpower to continue arguing, please carry on!

Genuine question - those who will stop following the 'rules' ... what do you think should happen when / if you get Covid care wise?

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind I completely agree with your post. I suggested something similar on another post and was told to fuck off.

@PoppiesinOctober

Christ this gets me sooo cross. Thank god this generation didn't live through WW2. We'd be royally FUCKED.

Yawn. Yet another stupid war comparison. Grow up.

@tinylittlepiggy probably absolutely nothing just like has happened when we had it (DS currently has it) and we've been following the rules. Accepting we didn't need any care but not everyone who catches the virus will require care.

Not trying to goad but at some point it has to give and lots of us are fed up mentally. The majority are following the rules and still catching it so is that the answer, we just stay in lockdown forever?

@tinylittlepiggy probably what we were told when my my dh blood oxygen levels dropped to 82%! Get a test not interested until you get one! Open your windows and drink plenty!

@User2921

Call me cynical, but I'm also a little suspicious of people who claim to be prepared to keep 'sacrificing' to save the lives of strangers.

Where were all these altruists before covid? Were they sacrificing anything then to save the lives of others? People have always died who could have been saved by the sacrifices of others. Anyone gone without to make huge donations to charity for example?

I'd be interested in how many people who are properly suffering due to LD, financially, mentally, emotionally, without any mitigating personal gains, are truly in favour of it purely for the benefit of others.

This is so true as well.

After the recent government spending review, I looked to see if there was a thread about the cut in the budget for foreign aid from 0.7 to 0.5% of GNI (which is a double cut considering how much GNI will have dropped). The amount of money this actually was saving was tiny, a drop in the ocean of the financial mess caused by coronavirus, but because of the government doing this, some of the poorest people in the world will suffer, there will be children in LMIC countries that don't receive vaccinations, obviously the list goes on.

The number of people on mumsnet who really didn't care was surprising to me. I don't want a debate on the rights or wrongs of the aid budget cut but to me this completely illustrates how far people wish to extend their altruism. And it's not much. They aren't interested if it's not happening in the UK. Quite happy to ignore the suffering of so many people in the most dire situations.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind this is what really pisses me off.

The 'care' that everyone claims to have for others, which is why they stay at home, yet no-one has done a damn thing for those dying of infectious diseases elsewhere over the years. Where is the outcry? Or is it just that only Western people and their lifestyles matter?

I commented on the last thread and am glad it's continuing.

I think it's disgusting that the government are taking away our freedom like this. I still sometimes stop and think about how it is illegal to have my family over to my house and I'm just 🤯 that it's possible, and that people are willingly going along with it.

There are far too many posts on this and the last thread that I agree with to quote them all. I think that it is inhumane, and really quite sickening, that we keep people alive when their body has given up. Purely because their loved ones would be upset if they died. Death is a part of life, why are people so bloody petrified of it? Whilst I think it's sad for their loved ones when someone in their 90's dies, I don't think of it as a tragedy, as others have said. Good for them that they lived into their old age, many don't get the chance and, again sad as that is, its just the way things are. We are human, not immortal.

I think it's awful that people are losing their homes and/or businesses that they have put their blood, sweat, tears and life savings into. People are literally breaking down and giving up on life. It's horrendous! I cringe every time I hear or see the word covidiot. Some people are really not coping! Why can't people have a bit of compassion and understanding? Those branding others covidiots are the same people claiming to be so selfless and to care about others so much. Please they don't give a shit about anyone except from themselves.

Children are suffering so much in all of this. I have a 2 year old that is due to start preschool in April. If he doesn't get to go I think it will tip me over the edge. He hasn't interacted with another child his own age since March last year. I am so worried about his development. And I have a 5 year old that is desperately missing school and her friends. All I want is for them to be able to go to school/preschool and play with other kids, make friends, have fun, do normal things. I would genuinely give up all the other "pre lockdown" things if my kids could just have that. The mum guilt is crippling me and I feel on the verge of tears about it every day.

My parents (separated) both live about an hours drive away and the only other member of my family is my sister who's partner works in a care home so she is, understandably, wanting to be careful. We aren't entitled to a support bubble.

I've barely worked over the last year. I'm a waitress and I actually quite enjoy my job but I've spent most of the last year on furlough. I'm happy to work, I want to work, but instead I'm getting money from the government to sit at home. I want to earn my money, the money that I am being given (by the tax payer) could be put to far better use, in the NHS for instance, but I can't turn it down because I need it to support my family.

And this is coming from someone who still has money coming in (DH and I both work in hospitality so it's precarious but okay for now), has a decent sized house and a garden. I absolutely dread to think how those that don't have the luxuries that I do are coping.

I know that almost everything I've said had already been posted in this thread or the last but I think I just needed to vent 😂

I can only assume that when this is over there will be hoards of people giving up their homes and jobs to go help save the lives of other people in the world who are dying. Just as LD is forcing many people to do now.
After all, nothing is more important than saving lives.

If it's risky but it's within the rules its fine but if it's not technically allowed but very little or no risk then you're immediately a granny killing covidiot

This is so true, and it’s not just on MN. I was listening to a phone-in on LBC earlier (infuriating at the best of times!) and it was about mandating mask-wearing outdoors - which I’m wholeheartedly against. For the first half hour or so every single pro-mask caller who rang in prefaced their opinion with: ‘When I was on holiday in Spain/Greece/France/Italy last summer, everyone was wearing masks outside...’

They were all super opinionated about the dangers of strolling around your local park, but totally blind to the risk they’d taken themselves by going on a foreign holiday during a pandemic. Because, of course, they were doing so within ‘The Rules’.

Well said wishful thinking

@User2921

I can only assume that when this is over there will be hoards of people giving up their homes and jobs to go help save the lives of other people in the world who are dying. Just as LD is forcing many people to do now. After all, nothing is more important than saving lives.

I wouldn't hold your breath; there was a thread recently about a suggestion that the inevitable tax rises start from an income of £19k, and the outcry basically came down to "not ME!!!!! - tax x,y or z instead"

how long will people make these sacrifices

A year, 2 years, maybe 3 or more ... dependents on why its necessary. If covid becomes even more infectious or deadly or debilerating (e.g. you don't die but get long covid and can't work properly for months or longer) or we need a different vaccine approach then would just have to get on with it.

Well said my nephew R

You should listen to the Brendan O'Neill podcast or the Culture one. Both Spiked productions.

Three things that have made me annoyed at the situation we were in
The first one
We were repatriated from Tenerife on March 18 when Spain went into lockdown on March 16.
We had to scrabble around for flights. The airport was like a scene from Exodus, there must’ve been over 3000 people rammed inside the building and several hundreds inside making passage through it difficult.
There was no thought to our safety.
There was no sanitiser
No masks
And with all those people a lame attempt at social distancing.
This was for a highly infectious disease.
Then we got on the plane. Again, the plane was rammed.not one spare seat. You all know how close together you sit on a plane..so that was 7 people other than myself and my husband in an area 2 metres by probably less than 2 metres.
I thought if I’m going to get it.
I’m going to get it now.
Then we sat on the tarmac for an hour because of the log jam before our 5 hour flight.
We weren’t told to self isolate when we got home either.

The next day, the government on their .gov website reduced the status of covid.

We didn’t catch covid. Neither did 7 friends who were evacuated on different days in the same condition back to different airports.
Weird that!

So, after a scenario like that where people were pretty much left to god and providence, we’ve just gone about our lives as normal.
The spanish government weren’t bothered either.
They just wanted the tourists out so they could lock their citizens down hard, even though Tenerife had hardly and cases.

The third thing was the masks. We weren’t told we had to wear masks when the pandemic was at its height. If they are so good, wouldn’t that have made sense? Surely?

No, we were only told we had to wear masks when cases were going down.

We are heartily sick of being lied to, of government officials doing what they like, so we are just living our lives as normal because it doesn’t make sense not to.

Several hundreds outside

I'm almost glad about the news of that big wedding being raided: not because the police succeeded in catching them, but evidence that there is some resistance to the brainwashing, and conditioning us to accept all this as "normal".

Ironic that you use as an example of resistance to brainwashing a group of people who are subject to the strict laws of their closed community and who have minimal contact with the outside world. I would have thought the opposite was true.

"DuchessofHastings1" There was a time we didn't even treat infections as we didn't know how all that worked. Some people want to go back to those times and they form little groups of like-minded people arguing against all progress. Fortunately you are vastly outnumbered by those who have embraced knowledge and progress.

I see you are "Sick of terrified people, taking in everything our corrupt media and government say" so you think covid is just in the UK and an invention of the UK government. That's not very promising.

Do you even recognise that cther countries exist? A lot of flat earther types want to phase out countries like Australia as they don't fit into their narrative. Having other countries experiencing covid and lockdowns blows a hole in your claims so it's probably best if you deny their existence entirely.

"If you say anything against Corona virus, question statistics and test results and the negative effects of lockdown, your a Covidiot and a conspiracy theorist" Correct. That is a fair description of a conspiracy theorist.

"Truth, Corona virus kills people, like the many viruses out there. The mean age of death is over 80 and 9 in 10 deaths have underlying health conditions. It has a 99% survival rate" You understand that you just dismissed half a million deaths there in the UK alone if we took your advice. For the whole world that would come to about 70 million deaths and all to save you some inconvenience.

And it may have escaped your notice (Though god knows we're explained it many times) that letting everyone catch it would mean several million in hospital and we don't have the capacity for that. You also forgot the complications experienced by the survivors.

Not your fault. It's because you're not a medical professional but an internet poster.

@User2921

I think most people have already lost their appetite for 'sacrifice' tbh.

The first time round people seemed to embrace the idea of doing a 'good thing' to help the nurses, protect 'the vulnerable' and so on.

Now, the novelty has very much worn off, we are bored and miserable.

IME most people are only as compliant as they have to be, because places are closed, or they fear the consequences if caught breaking the law. They take every opportunity to grasp a bit of normality and social interaction.

It's only on here that people seem to still be fully embracing the idea of indefinite restrictions, I don't see this is RL at all.

And as for the obsession with policing and judging others, and for making up extra rules for themselves that happens on here, I don't know anyone who does this. Thankfully.

"doing a 'good thing' to help the nurses" because you really thought that's what saving the NHS meant didn't you.

Ask someone you trust to explain it to you. You may be really embarrassed when they are done though.

@MynephewR

There are far too many posts on this and the last thread that I agree with to quote them all. I think that it is inhumane, and really quite sickening, that we keep people alive when their body has given up. Purely because their loved ones would be upset if they died. Death is a part of life, why are people so bloody petrified of it? Whilst I think it's sad for their loved ones when someone in their 90's dies, I don't think of it as a tragedy, as others have said. Good for them that they lived into their old age, many don't get the chance and, again sad as that is, its just the way things are. We are human, not immortal.

I've been saying the same for months.....and I'll go a step further......are we right to vaccinate someone who is 96 for example?

@LastTrainEast

"If you say anything against Corona virus, question statistics and test results and the negative effects of lockdown, your a Covidiot and a conspiracy theorist" Correct. That is a fair description of a conspiracy theorist."

I completely disagree. You can of course question statistics when you are only getting some of the information. That is not a conspiracy theorist - how daft. It's critical thinking.

@DameFanny

I was very specifically referencing your "We are all now only allowed to think one way." as being bullshit @Someonetookmyname*, and likening it to the equal bullshit of 'being silenced'.

It's not a sentence that suggests you're interested in debate, because it makes the proposition that people disagreeing with you are trying to silence you - rather than, say, correcting misinformation.

And no, I'm not going to play misery top trumps with you. I'm not even debating the merits of lockdown right now - I'm just pointing out that you're starting point of 'omg people disagree with me they should respect my opinions regardless of what they are' is, shall we say, flawed*

You are nitpicking and misinterpreting one sentence. Because it suits your own narrative - that everyone who questions lockdown is a covidiot or conspiracy theorist.

This kind of universal shutdown, where facts aren’t allowed to be debated is actually dangerous and stops people feeling free to voice opinions that don’t conform to the narrative of the majority.

What a surprise!! You don’t want to reveal your own circumstances because I suspect you are probably not too badly affected by lockdown.

But hey, don’t let that stop you from preaching to others about sacrifice on the internet.

This is something I don't understand either. We are throwing billions around for furlough, eat out to help out, crisis grants etc and yet just a tiny tiny fraction of that being spent on the NHS would actually have helped wo much more.

I can’t see how throwing £100s of billions extra at the NHS over and above existing additional funding over the past year would have made any significant difference.... What would it have been spent on? You can’t train more doctors and nurses in 10 months.

I agree about how money in the NHS wouldnt fix this. I know people working on the frontline. The issue isnt money, its staff levels and bed capacity as a result of that. You cant buy in more doctors and nurses. There is a limited supply, and that limited supply are being decimated by needing to go on sick leave for every temperature they get (which has to be done). That cant be fixed with money unfortunately.