How long will people agree to make these sacrifices for?

[DappledOliveGroves]

Inspired by another thread here.

Let's assume the vaccines don't do what they should - either because the virus mutates so rapidly or because our government can't manage to adhere to Pfizer's protocol and a lone dose does nothing to protect people.

Then what?

For all those champing at the bit for curfews, harsher lockdowns, further restrictions on civil liberties - I'm genuinely curious - how long are you willing to maintain this status quo?

Would you be happy to still be in this lockdown in a year? Two years? Five years? Even if the lockdowns are eased and clamped down again, would you be willing to accept rolling lockdowns as a fact of life with no end in sight? At what point would those wanting tougher restrictions decide they can't live like this anymore?

@MilkTwoSugarsThanks

I just want to be able to go work, earn money and pay my bills.

I don't want to be on the brink of financial ruin, losing my home and my family.

Would I "sacrifice" some random person, who's existence is, to me, merely hypothetical to save me and mine? You bet your ass I would.

Oh, and this. I'm on the brink of financial ruin, too. Thanks, lockdowns.

To all of you that want to protest - go on then do it stop moaning on here and get on with it. What do you actually think you will achieve? Obviously you will spread the virus around a bit more and add to the numbers in hospital already. You will stretch an overworked police force but go on stamp your feet and do it. We have done particularly badly in this country and other countries have done much better at keeping infections down but you go stamp your feet, protest and add to the infection numbers. It won't open the hospital to cancer care any quicker, it won't open the schools any quicker it won't open the shops any quicker but if it makes you feel better then go on do it....

@TempsPerdu

Until the young people start to rebel in large numbers...

This. If it were just forty-something me and DP I could ‘take one for the team’ and put up with this existence (it’s not a life) for a while longer. I could sit at home and willingly sacrifice all the things I love - travel, live music and theatre, swimming, meals out - although I’d still feel terribly for the millions in these industries whose livelihoods hang in the balance.

But I’m not accepting this life for my daughter. She’s 3, at a crucial point in her development and doesn’t have years to spare; she needs socialisation and experience of the wider world if she is to learn and develop normally. Older kids need education by trained teachers, not patchy online lessons facilitated by frazzled and unqualified parents. Teens and twenty somethings need real-life contact with their peers, independence from their parents and the opportunity to branch out into the world.

Since about last April I’ve felt increasingly angry in young people’s behalf, especially the less advantaged who pre-covid were already facing massive challenges in life. ‘The vulnerable’ doesn’t just cover Covid, and doesn’t just mean the elderly and those with specific conditions. Our young are vulnerable too, just to less fashionable threats than the virus.

I know

The dismissal of young people is so utterly galling in all this. I find it hard to take.

Riots and civil protests can and do work. The poll tax went away. Ceasescu and other dictators have been toppled. Civil disobedience is a clear way of effecting change.

I suppose one thing that will emerge from this farce is the provision of such much sociological and psychological data about human reactions to this. Who complies, who rebels?

Until April. After that I'll see any friends or family that want to and who aren't classed as vulnerable

@Timeontimeoff

To all of you that want to protest - go on then do it stop moaning on here and get on with it. What do you actually think you will achieve? Obviously you will spread the virus around a bit more and add to the numbers in hospital already. You will stretch an overworked police force but go on stamp your feet and do it. We have done particularly badly in this country and other countries have done much better at keeping infections down but you go stamp your feet, protest and add to the infection numbers. It won't open the hospital to cancer care any quicker, it won't open the schools any quicker it won't open the shops any quicker but if it makes you feel better then go on do it....

I don’t think people are talking about rioting now but answering very long term point by op?

My response was yes I’m complying as I want schools to stand a chance

It's a virus ,not an unfair tax or a dictatorship .

@DappledOliveGroves

Riots and civil protests can and do work. The poll tax went away. Ceasescu and other dictators have been toppled. Civil disobedience is a clear way of effecting change.

I suppose one thing that will emerge from this farce is the provision of such much sociological and psychological data about human reactions to this. Who complies, who rebels?

The poll tax was something that just affected this country and the government could sort easily. The virus is around the world and stamping feet and protesting won't make it go away - will it? I think you have missed something in your argument. Toppling a government won't make the virus disappear either!

the Australians did it in four months over their winter by doing what they were told. (and shutting their borders, and enforcing quarantine rather than just asking nicely, and have distance limits on travel and lots of other stuff)

smaller population although at least two of their cities are as crowded as ours.

Not that I believe any of this will happen but I think if a lockdown lasted until August 40% of the population would protest and ignore any rules. If is lasted over a year 75% would no longer comply. Before that stage the government would change policy and drop lockdown anyway.

Tiers are different most people can cope with going up and down tiers. So more compliance for much longer from 75% of the population

To answer OP’s question directly, I’ll continue to support the lockdowns/restrictions until Phase 1 of the vaccination process is complete and the most ‘vulnerable’ groups (in pure death from Covid terms) are immunised. If the goalposts shift again, we we’re told we now need to lock down because of Long Covid, or because the government has messed up the vaccine schedule, or the vaccines turn out not to prevent transmission, or not to be as effective as hoped (all of which groups such as Indie SAGE are now hinting at) then I’ll be rebelling by freely seeing friends and family - again, mainly for DD, not me.

In certainly not on board with any kind of Zero Covid strategy at this point - this time last year perhaps, but certainly not now.

I agree with @sadpapercourtesan. I don’t have elderly relatives but I will do everything I can to help prevent anyone losing a loved one.

@x2boys

It's a virus ,not an unfair tax or a dictatorship .

Indeed. There appears to be a complete lack of understanding in the have a protest and that will sort it out brigade...

Umm.....

Until March. After that I'm seeing my family in the garden at the BARE minimum. Not my fault the government couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery. Look at countries like AUS and NZ with competent governments.

@Bumpsadaisie I have a mother in a dementia care home, a step daughter with incurable sarcoma, vulnerable in laws in their 70s and a myriad of other elderly relatives.

At the end of the day, for me, life is not about avoiding death. I've watched my father die of a disease - mesothelioma - which is far fucking worse than Covid. I've seen him become skeletal, paralysed and die in agony as the tumours spread throughout his body over a period of seven months.

I've seen my mother descend into dementia when, truthfully, we would all be relieved if she were to die now. She exists. I have seen her once in the last year because of Covid. She won't know who I am. Apparently she is now forgetting how to eat.

I'd rather quality of life than longevity. And I think most of my relatives in their 70s and 80s are on the same page.

@Beans13

Until March. After that I'm seeing my family in the garden at the BARE minimum. Not my fault the government couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery. Look at countries like AUS and NZ with competent governments.

Do you have school age dc? Are they in school currently

Reading these responses they’d better get a move on and open schools before people start mixing more.

I find the title of this thread really puzzling. It's worldwide, it's dangerous, it's shit. What do you suggest? Let it rip, watch world health provision collapse...?

As soon as the vaccine has rolled out to the main vulnerable groups and the numbers being admitted to hospital falls then restrictions can ease. Long term that is our option in the UK. Pushing for a quicker roll out of vaccines. Making more vaccine. More centres, more people giving them out is the way out of this.

I'd rather curl up in a ball and expire than do this until Easter. My life has been utterly destroyed. DH lost his job, children with severe ASD had every tiny piece of support ripped away. I, who had very little 'for me' before now have absolutely nothing. Not even 5 minutes alone.

I'm beginning to think I'd like to go into the local covid ward to rub myself on them so I can die.

I'm not following it anymore. I'm not selfish, but nor am I endlessly self-sacrificing whilst harming my own life in the process. Enough was enough. My mental health was suffering BEFORE all this, but these repeated lockdowns absolutely done me over. I'm proud I didn't end it all.

A few months to flatten the curve? Okay. Done.
Nigh on a fcking YEAR!? Absolutely not.

If things don't start being relaxed by mid March/early April (and by relaxed I just mean a return to tier 2 type situation in first instance) then I think a very significant minority will start doing some household mixing regardless of the rules

Here in West Yorkshire we have been in equivalent of tier 3 or lockdown for 10 months now (other than a small period in July/Aug) and it is bloody tedious

While the hospitals are under extreme pressure I will follow the rules but if rules are not relaxed a little once the hospital capacity is much improved then I will definitely get to a point when I think 'fuck it'

Yes let's look at New Zealand and it's tiny population and land mass bigger than the UK quite apart from it being hours from anywhere else ,@Beans13 not a fair comparison.

I'll continue to follow rules, whilst infection rates are high, but not once they are under control. My DPs are getting their second dose of the covid vaccine qt end of March and I'll be going to see them 3 weeks after that regardless of any rules.

As I live in Scotland they seem to be slower than England at lifting restrictions for what sometimes feels like political point scoring rather than any actual risk analysis. I'll be going to see relatives in England once English lockdown is lifted and numbers are lower, regardless of what Scottish government says.

DappledOliveGroves
Riots and civil protests can and do work. The poll tax went away. Ceasescu and other dictators have been toppled. Civil disobedience is a clear way of effecting change.
I suppose one thing that will emerge from this farce is the provision of such much sociological and psychological data about human reactions to this. Who complies, who rebels?

Horse shite - rebelling against measure that are put in place to deal with an ever changing global public health crisis, doesn't make you the freaking Rebel Alliance.
People'Not Complying' doesn't make them freedom fighters toppling dictators, it makes them dicks.