How long will people agree to make these sacrifices for?

[DappledOliveGroves]

Inspired by another thread here.

Let's assume the vaccines don't do what they should - either because the virus mutates so rapidly or because our government can't manage to adhere to Pfizer's protocol and a lone dose does nothing to protect people.

Then what?

For all those champing at the bit for curfews, harsher lockdowns, further restrictions on civil liberties - I'm genuinely curious - how long are you willing to maintain this status quo?

Would you be happy to still be in this lockdown in a year? Two years? Five years? Even if the lockdowns are eased and clamped down again, would you be willing to accept rolling lockdowns as a fact of life with no end in sight? At what point would those wanting tougher restrictions decide they can't live like this anymore?

You're putting words in to my mouth. When did I, or anyone here, say avoiding all death was the most important thing? It's a straw man argument I encounter time and time again.

It's not because I'm a selfless wonderful individual it's because I understand how a virus works and I understand that the higher the rate of transmission is, the more chance that it will affect me or someone close to me. Its also knowing that if hospitals are overrun and someone I love needs an IT bed then it won't be available

This is exactly what I was saying on here yesterday - when we dig right down most people’s actions are motivated by self-preservation, not altruism. Ultimately we care most about protecting those we are closest to, not random strangers in a supermarket. Except with Covid we are all in very different boats, so this self-preservation manifests itself in different ways. Your self-preservation involves supporting lockdown because you want to protect the NHS for you and your loved ones. Mine involves sending my DD to nursery and calling for a timely end to restrictions because, one year in, I refuse to sacrifice my child’s well-being on the altar of some nebulous ‘Greater Good’.

My choice is no more or less selfish than yours.

DappledOliveGroves

@StealthPolarBear are you honestly telling me that if we're in this position in five years' time you will still stick by the rules? No gatherings, no weddings, no family Christmas, no meals out, no parties?

If so, then you're certainly far more altruistic than me.“

Not altruism here, CEV husband and CV son. No choice, as long as it takes. Would rather live a tiny life with them than have freedom without them.
If they were not the consideration, of course I can’t be certain because that’s not my life, but I think we would abide by the restrictions as long as they were in place. I know that our daughter and grandchild would be the one thing that would test us, though.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'answered the OP, I not here to argue with the likes of you 😘'

This thread. It's like an episode of Jeremy Kyle. @Perfect28 has been pleasant throughtout, calmly repeating facts while others cackle and bring up utterly irrelevant facts like people die in road accidents.

If you don't follow the rules I hope a busybodying, curtain twitching 'stasi' person reports you and you get fined.

It's a public health crisis. Stop being selfish, parent your kids by teaching them coping strategies and use zoom like everyone else for social contact.

That’s not what has happened at all and well you know it, she/he has constantly said anyone who doesn’t agree with her is of sub normal intelligence and just a follower of the OP, I wonder what that makes you @GetOffYourHighHorse. I have followed every single rule as have my children and will continue to do so for the time being, but I am not willing to sacrifice properly living for years on end like some people on this thread have suggested they would, to what ends 🤷‍♀️ As for Jeremy Kyle, that doesn’t even deserve a response.

@Honeyhoops
If you live alone you can form a support bubble. If you live with a violent partner you are exempt to leave your house to leave them. If you have children with special needs they are entitled to a place at school.

@TheKeatingFive

If anyone can show me where Maslow stated that humans will be absolutely fine having just their functional needs met for months and indeed years at a time, please post it, ta!

Even prisoners on death row have more than this. The poster who mentioned it was being absurd.

The time element is relevant here also. There is a big difference between a few weeks, or even a couple of months with such severe restrictions.

Many of us have had this for a very long time. In Leicester restrictions were never lifted, and we reminded under the tightest version every time. We've had no extra help, even being slow to be allocated a rapid testing centre. No one has been allowed to mix except on a park all along.

When did I, or anyone here, say avoiding all death was the most important thing?

You do want to avoid CV deaths right?

And from your posts on this thread, I’m struggling to understand what ‘too high a cost’ would be for you to avoid that. Given that keeping people separated from their close family from months on end is fair game.

Just apply that logic to RTA. No (or almost no) cost is too high to avoid deaths. So ban cars, simple.

It’s just mind blowing that their are people out there willing to live like this for 5-10 years.

@LucilleTheVampireBat

It's not because I'm a selfless wonderful individual it's because I understand how a virus works and I understand that the higher the rate of transmission is, the more chance that it will affect me or someone close to me. Its also knowing that if hospitals are overrun and someone I love needs an IT bed then it won't be available

So you are pro-lockdown because hospitals being overrun could affect you or someone close to you. Which is exactly what I said. It is for your own benefit that you push this agenda. You don't do it for other people, you do it for you and yours and you scream selfish at people who think they should be allowed to work and earn money and see their families. You want them to happily give up these things so that you can have a hospital bed if you need it.

Got it.

Thank you, spot on

@TempsPerdu
Oh my goodness, how many times? Those randomers at the supermarket are you and me. We are all randomers to those we don't know. All of our actions affect others. My motivation may be to keep myself and loved ones safe but the impact is still the same. If I act to keep them safe, I keep others in my society safe. If people in my society do things that have dangerous consequences, we all suffer those consequences.

Too many people fail to see this very basic fact. They believe that seeing their friends and family has no wider impact than on those individuals directly. That view is incorrect, unscientific and horribly misguided.

What I find amusing is one the one hand people say ' I would have more respect if people were honest about caring about their loves ones' and when you explain that is how you feel, you're called selfish.

The motivation is irrelevant. The action and the consequences are not.

Clear enough?

Fembot123

It’s just mind blowing that their are people out there willing to live like this for 5-10 years.“

Some poor beggars don’t have a choice, through no fault of their own. They’re certainly not all “willing”.

@LucilleTheVampireBat

Being shocked that people won't stop having a social because I might need a hospital bed (or potentially die).
How ridiculous of me. I should be prepared to sacrifice my life, and particularly those who are vulnerable or otherwise sick, so they can go to the pub.
Got it.

@Fembot123

It’s just mind blowing that their are people out there willing to live like this for 5-10 years.

I'm desperately hoping that these individuals are either like those in power - telling us how morally superior they are, whilst ignoring the rules anyway, or have agoraphobia and never leave the house anyway.

What is extremely heartening from this thread is how many people are at the point of disobeying the edicts, or have already done so. And as January drags into February and we're still in this pathetic situation I imagine those numbers will only increase.

@DenisetheMenace

Fembot123

It’s just mind blowing that their are people out there willing to live like this for 5-10 years.“

Some poor beggars don’t have a choice, through no fault of their own. They’re certainly not all “willing”.

Have you read the whole thread and the posts to which I’m referring?

The point is about viewing yourself and your family as part of a society where actions have consequences

That isn't what you said. You can add that on now, afterwards, to try and pull it back but it isn't what you said.

We’re just normal people who are questioning things now, I’m not a revolutionary or a denier and it’s not about going to the fucking pub. This is not sustainable for years and this is not living.

Who said it was going to be like this for years @Fembot123 ?

Being shocked that people won't stop having a social because I might need a hospital bed (or potentially die)

and you're at it again. Making stuff up. Where did I mention social life? In which of my posts have I used the words social life? None.

You are doing what all you lockdown lovers do and reverting back to the tired old trope of dismissing people by making it all about them wanting to go to the pub, or coffee shops, or soft play.

@frumpety

Who said it was going to be like this for years *@Fembot123* ?

Its the question posed in the OP and some posters have said they would accept a couple of years and one 5-10 years.

What is extremely heartening from this thread is how many people are at the point of disobeying the edicts, or have already done so.

Op why is this good to you?

Aren’t you concerned that other restrictions will get worse as a result?

The government cannot control private mixing but schools and businesses can be closed for longer as a result of higher numbers

I can’t stand this but I really don’t see his what you want is in any way good? Sounds like we’ll be in hell for longer

@Perfect28 But equally your determination to keep you and your loved ones ‘safe’ (god, I’m so sick of that word) by means of lockdown is also adversely affecting a sector of society, and is having similarly ‘dangerous consequences’ for that sector - primarily the young and economically vulnerable.

Or is the wider impact of your choices not important? Will you be happy, for example, to pay higher taxes post-Covid to support the generation of kids that has been damaged in educational, developmental, mental health and general well-being terms by repeated lockdowns? Because they’re going to need a hell of a lot of help.

@LucilleTheVampireBat
Actually I've said it several times. It's all there in black and white so please don't accuse me of essentially lying about my argument because you can't be bothered to trawl through pages of replies.

@GetOffYourHighHorse
I honestly despair. If anything this thread is a great reason to open schools up lest we allow these people to educate their children. Worrying indeed.

I'm just going to remind you all that the OP is 'well beyond caring what the infection rate is, or how many die'.

‘safe’ (god, I’m so sick of that word)

I know. I cannot wait for messaging to change and it’s dropped.

Whoops!
Can’t keep up with this thread.
Think the ‘150 deaths’ referred too may have been a quote from my ‘151 deaths .’..in which I forgot to add in my town of 93,000 people since March
So I apologise for that..was either too late or too early, can’t remember which.
I’m sure Perfect will remind me

Course I know there’s Been more than 150 .
I shall make my way to the naughty chair and self flagellate 😂😂😂

Anyway..as you were..looking after my grandchild shortly.

[quote Perfect28]@LucilleTheVampireBat
Actually I've said it several times. It's all there in black and white so please don't accuse me of essentially lying about my argument because you can't be bothered to trawl through pages of replies.

@GetOffYourHighHorse
I honestly despair. If anything this thread is a great reason to open schools up lest we allow these people to educate their children. Worrying indeed.

I'm just going to remind you all that the OP is 'well beyond caring what the infection rate is, or how many die'.[/quote]
Perfect are you beyond caring about increased poverty, job losses and harm to children?