How long will people agree to make these sacrifices for?

[DappledOliveGroves]

Inspired by another thread here.

Let's assume the vaccines don't do what they should - either because the virus mutates so rapidly or because our government can't manage to adhere to Pfizer's protocol and a lone dose does nothing to protect people.

Then what?

For all those champing at the bit for curfews, harsher lockdowns, further restrictions on civil liberties - I'm genuinely curious - how long are you willing to maintain this status quo?

Would you be happy to still be in this lockdown in a year? Two years? Five years? Even if the lockdowns are eased and clamped down again, would you be willing to accept rolling lockdowns as a fact of life with no end in sight? At what point would those wanting tougher restrictions decide they can't live like this anymore?

I honestly despair. If anything this thread is a great reason to open schools up lest we allow these people to educate their children

That isn't very nice. I thought you were a really nice person who cared about people, society, perfect strangers, "randomers"? Is that not the case? Or, only if they agree with you?

Oh, and please stop @'ing me. I don't need a notification, i'm on the thread.

I'm prepared to stay like this for as long as it takes....but no pandemic lasts forever, so even if it's 5 years down the line, it will eventually get to a level where some sort of herd immunity makes the human race able to live alongside it.

I'd prefer to be back to normal but if that doesn't happen, what choice do we have? Look at the number of deaths now....will we just let thousands of people die because we're fed up of not having our social lives? That sounds more scary than long term lockdowns.

[quote Perfect28]@LucilleTheVampireBat
Actually I've said it several times. It's all there in black and white so please don't accuse me of essentially lying about my argument because you can't be bothered to trawl through pages of replies.

@GetOffYourHighHorse
I honestly despair. If anything this thread is a great reason to open schools up lest we allow these people to educate their children. Worrying indeed.

I'm just going to remind you all that the OP is 'well beyond caring what the infection rate is, or how many die'.[/quote]
See how reasonable this person you are looking up to actually is @GetOffYourHighHorse, reducing herself to insulting intelligence and the ability of other posters to home school. @Perfect28, I sincerely hope you are childfree I really do.

I honestly despair. If anything this thread is a great reason to open schools up lest we allow these people to educate their children. Worrying indeed

Well yes let’s I’m not against it.

I’d prefer more people on here study economics while we’re at it.

@WanderingMilly

I'm prepared to stay like this for as long as it takes....but no pandemic lasts forever, so even if it's 5 years down the line, it will eventually get to a level where some sort of herd immunity makes the human race able to live alongside it.

I'd prefer to be back to normal but if that doesn't happen, what choice do we have? Look at the number of deaths now....will we just let thousands of people die because we're fed up of not having our social lives? That sounds more scary than long term lockdowns.

Oh my god 🤯

@TempsPerdu
Interesting argument. Don't you think it's up to the government to support the economically vulnerable? Shouldn't you be angry at them for failing these people?

And yes, I'm happy to pay later for what needs doing now. If you had an emergency at home, say a massive leak, but you didn't have the money in your account to fix it, you would access debt knowing that ignoring the leak will cost you more in the long run, correct? Or would you just ignore it?

I also happen to think that the richest in our society should shoulder more of the burden but let's not get into that one eh?

I have a suspicion that those arguing against the lockdown tend to exist mostly on the right hand side of the political spectrum, believing as they do in individualism and an odd sense of 'survival of the fittest', so you probably think calling on the wealthy to contribute more towards society is a ridiculous concept.

Meanwhile, inequality grows.

@LucilleTheVampireBat

It's not because I'm a selfless wonderful individual it's because I understand how a virus works and I understand that the higher the rate of transmission is, the more chance that it will affect me or someone close to me. Its also knowing that if hospitals are overrun and someone I love needs an IT bed then it won't be available

So you are pro-lockdown because hospitals being overrun could affect you or someone close to you. Which is exactly what I said. It is for your own benefit that you push this agenda. You don't do it for other people, you do it for you and yours and you scream selfish at people who think they should be allowed to work and earn money and see their families. You want them to happily give up these things so that you can have a hospital bed if you need it.

Got it.

Well said.

Plus, for many people, losing their job, facing financial ruin or having their children uneducated - let's not pretend 'blended learning' is an adequate substitute - is a much greater and more immediate concern than the possibility their relative might not have a hospital bed in the unlikely case of them needing it.

I have a suspicion that those arguing against the lockdown tend to exist mostly on the right hand side of the political spectrum

Lock down most certainly hits the poorest hardest. It all does but this is no exception.

I'm prepared to stay like this for as long as it takes....but no pandemic lasts forever, so even if it's 5 years down the line, it will eventually get to a level where some sort of herd immunity makes the human race able to live alongside it.

Could you define 'as long as it takes' please.

And 5 years? Are you serious? You're 'prepared' for schools to be closed, and millions to be out of work for 5 years?

I don’t know any right wingers, where’s that coming from.

@ptumbi

I've seen posters on MN and elsewhere refer to people like him as "on his last legs anyway" and wonder why we are bothering to make sacrifices to keep people like him alive. But to me, he's my cherished, fiercely intelligent, witty, musical, creative, endlessly loving Dad, and I would do ANYTHING to keep him alive, for however long he has. I want him to die peacefully of old age when the time comes, not alone and terrified, drowning in infected lung fluid. - But we ALL want that! We ALL want to die peacefully in our beds, and our loved ones to die peacefully in their beds at a good age. But - people don't. They die at all ages, from lots of hideous things. Doesn't matter how creative, fiercely intelligent, witty, loving - or otherwise- they are. People DIE!

It makes me laugh how the white western world is suddenly scared to face death - people die all the time, but if it's not COVID, it's a nice death?

We have suddenly woken up to a virus - how about all the Malaria, Belharzia, Typhoid, Cholera, Yellow fever, EBOLA? This has a mortality rate of under 1% - Ebola is more like 50%.

More than 3 million people die every year from Dehydration - but that's ok, it's in Africa.

BBC Headlines yesterday - 97yo IDENTICAL TWIN DIES! Well, at least she got into the papers! - If she'd died of falling down the stairs, or getting flu, or you know, heart failure, her death would mean nothing. But she died of Covid! Why didn't anyone save her? Who gave it to her? FFS.

Personally, I'd actually rather it takes the old. Better that than a war-type death, which takes the young. At least the old have had a life - young 19/20 YOs in the world wars had nothing.

And I say that as someone with a 92yo mother, 90 yo dad, 91 yo MIL.... - they had a good life. Of course I don't want them to die, but they will.

Thank you for this ❤️

We all want our loved ones to die peacefully in old age.

Some of us don’t get that, that’s life. I speak as someone who watched a parent die when I was 22 of a horrible illness, after witnessing them suffer for a long time.

Do I wish I’d had longer? That she’d made it to her sixties or beyond? Of course. Who wouldn’t? But that’s the way it goes sometime. I find it quite curious that anyone would be so desensitised to death and cosseted tbh. It’s a part of life and it doesn’t matter how much we wish for things to end peacefully and pleasantly. Not everyone gets that.

@WanderingMilly

I'm prepared to stay like this for as long as it takes....but no pandemic lasts forever, so even if it's 5 years down the line, it will eventually get to a level where some sort of herd immunity makes the human race able to live alongside it.

I'd prefer to be back to normal but if that doesn't happen, what choice do we have? Look at the number of deaths now....will we just let thousands of people die because we're fed up of not having our social lives? That sounds more scary than long term lockdowns.

How many times do we have to say it - it isn’t about the social life.

I’ve not seen my partner’s grand daughter yet - she is 6 months old. I want to cuddle her. My kids exams have been cancelled. My partner’s business is failing. It isn’t just about the social life. Bloody ignorant comments on here. Whilst in lockdown what are you doing to help the homeless, the rough sleepers, the people losing their homes? Nothing I bet whist you sit in your comfortable house looking at the sheep.

@WanderingMilly

I'm prepared to stay like this for as long as it takes....but no pandemic lasts forever, so even if it's 5 years down the line, it will eventually get to a level where some sort of herd immunity makes the human race able to live alongside it.

I'd prefer to be back to normal but if that doesn't happen, what choice do we have? Look at the number of deaths now....will we just let thousands of people die because we're fed up of not having our social lives? That sounds more scary than long term lockdowns.

Blimey at this.

How do you earn a living?

Loving how many here think a hug with mum is essential but a functioning health care system is an optional extra. 🤔

If we stayed exactly like this for 5 years, what kind of life will we be saving, society would crumble.

@MarshaBradyo

What is extremely heartening from this thread is how many people are at the point of disobeying the edicts, or have already done so.

Op why is this good to you?

Aren’t you concerned that other restrictions will get worse as a result?

The government cannot control private mixing but schools and businesses can be closed for longer as a result of higher numbers

I can’t stand this but I really don’t see his what you want is in any way good? Sounds like we’ll be in hell for longer

Once the horse has bolted, the government can try until it's blue in the face to force people to stay home, but realistically, what can it do? We're not in China. They can't shoot people who leave their homes.

The pressure to re-open schools is massive and again I can see the government opening them sooner rather than later, in the face of mutiny.

It's generally a right wing view because it is putting the individual above the community, and is most widely and publicly held by Tory far-right, Trump supporters etc

Though as the left is generally way more authoritarian when in power, I can see how it wouid appeal too. But it's not really coming through on left-leaning channels (other than the widely discredited Great Barrington stuff)

*How many times do we have to say it - it isn’t about the social life.

I’ve not seen my partner’s grand daughter yet - she is 6 months old. I want to cuddle her. My kids exams have been cancelled. My partner’s business is failing. It isn’t just about the social life. Bloody ignorant comments on here. Whilst in lockdown what are you doing to help the homeless, the rough sleepers, the people losing their homes? Nothing I bet whist you sit in your comfortable house looking at the sheep*

And waiting for the Ocado delivery man to ring the bell. Because of course it's fine for other people to go out to work so that they can stay comfortably at home on MN.

Comments like these are as tiresome as the "All we're being asked to do is stay at home and watch television''. Well no. Maybe that's all it is for them, but others are watching their businesses collapse, their children's education suffer and are sinking into depression. The smugness from some here is deeply unpleasant.

@Perfect28

@Honeyhoops
If you live alone you can form a support bubble. If you live with a violent partner you are exempt to leave your house to leave them. If you have children with special needs they are entitled to a place at school.*

So you're evading my question?

The point I'm trying to make is everyone's circumstances are different. Someone living in a large house with a garden with a loving husband and no children to try to homeschool or entertain will most likely find it a lot easier to "stay at home" than someone in a situation like I mentioned.

You are very black and white in your views. Tbh you're a complete joke.

I can't believe that people expect me and my loved ones to make all of these sacrifices just so that there will be a ICU bed for them on the off chance that they or their loved ones should need one or so that they don't catch a virus. So bloody SELFISH!

We are all selfish, whichever side of the covid fence we sit on. I have more respect for those that break the rules in minor ways because at least they aren't pretending that their actions are because they are so selfless 🤷‍♀️

The pressure to re-open schools is massive and again I can see the government opening them sooner rather than later, in the face of mutiny.

Op of course I’m saying the same thing. We have little enforcement over private lives.

So what they have are schools and businesses. Which they do control.

I wish I had any impact whatsoever on these but really what is there? What does mutiny entail?

@Perfect28

Loving how many here think a hug with mum is essential but a functioning health care system is an optional extra. 🤔

Who do you think pays for a functioning health care system?

Little fairies?

The health care system is funded by taxes. Taxes paid by working adults. However, if we allow economic activity to shrink to a minimum for 5 years or 'as long as it takes', there won't be any taxes to pay for it.

How do you not understand this?

@Bitbusyattheminute

Dh is currently quite ill with cv. Currently constantly watching to see if he gets bad enough to phone for assistance. I would quite like him not to die. I think, on balance, the dc would also quite like him not to die, even though they are missing school and their lives are ruined by ld. I think their dad dying might ruin it a bit more.

But I'm glad everyone on here has been untouched by cv or that, you know, it only affects old and ill people (dh is neither).

Oh please. Your DH has got cv like thousands and thousands of us have. A mild case from the sounds of it when you wrote the post (not requiring treatment). Oh the drama.

@SexTrainGlue

It's generally a right wing view because it is putting the individual above the community, and is most widely and publicly held by Tory far-right, Trump supporters etc

Though as the left is generally way more authoritarian when in power, I can see how it wouid appeal too. But it's not really coming through on left-leaning channels (other than the widely discredited Great Barrington stuff)

However it’s east to see impact of current lock down on the poor. It’s far harder to survive this financially, and emotionally, if you have little resource.