How long will people agree to make these sacrifices for?

[DappledOliveGroves]

Inspired by another thread here.

Let's assume the vaccines don't do what they should - either because the virus mutates so rapidly or because our government can't manage to adhere to Pfizer's protocol and a lone dose does nothing to protect people.

Then what?

For all those champing at the bit for curfews, harsher lockdowns, further restrictions on civil liberties - I'm genuinely curious - how long are you willing to maintain this status quo?

Would you be happy to still be in this lockdown in a year? Two years? Five years? Even if the lockdowns are eased and clamped down again, would you be willing to accept rolling lockdowns as a fact of life with no end in sight? At what point would those wanting tougher restrictions decide they can't live like this anymore?

[quote Perfect28]@MadameBlobby
Sorry but they don't become basic human needs just because you claim them to be.[/quote]
Sadly the United Nations' Universal Declaration of Human Rights doesn't agree with you:

www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

Come at me with a decent argument please

All you’re doing is refuting. No argument from you either.

You can’t tell me how I feel, take a hike.

@MadameBlobby
You can have human contact with those you live with or, if you are a single adult household, with another household.

Unless you're suggesting the utterly ridiculous claim that people will stop procreation because of lockdown and that will lead to the demise of the human race.

But you wouldn't be suggesting that would you, because that would be silly

www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html

Maslow's hierarchy of human needs.

@DappledOliveGroves
Sorry dappled basic human needs aren't the same as human rights. Needs. Rights. Can you see those two words are different?

Any response to the immediate alternative after we allow the NHS to collapse or?

I could honestly understand it if people would just be honest and say that they are scared and that they are pro-lockdown because they want to keep themselves and their families safe. That's understandable, that's normal. They insist on pretending that they are selfless wonderful individuals that want to protect other people, and it isn't true, it is for their own benefit. You only have to look at their behaviour on here, insulting people left, right and centre, with no regard for the person behind the screen. That isn't caring about perfect strangers, as they profess to be so keen to do

Exactly. Same with vaccination. All the virtue signallers say they get their child vaccinated for the sake of others. No you don't, you do it so your own children won't get ill.

And now you stay at home to avoid getting infected yourself, not because you are that worried about passing it onto others other than if you live with or regularly see vulnerable relatives.

@AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter

Yea, and in so many countries like Malawi, India, South Africa, it's just another way to die. Millions die from malaria, TB, poverty. Death is a part of life. We think, because we're in the West, that death is horrendous and must be avoided at all costs. To hold that view is inherently privileged. Try having that discussion with someone living in poverty in Malawi and see how you get on

Exactly,. Noone gave a shit about people dying before, Suddenly, now its at their door, they are calling others "selfish".

The hypocrisy and privilege is mind blowing

Well I think thats quite a de-humanising view to have. You think that if someone looses a family member in Malawi from malaria they are like, oh well, just another death? How do you know that?

This article in states that research found 'that severe events, such as the death of a child, were as likely to cause depression in a poor woman in Harare as they were in an affluent Londoner. “But women in Zimbabwe faced many more such events in a year,” '

Unless you're suggesting the utterly ridiculous claim that people will stop procreation because of lockdown and that will lead to the demise of the human race

Not that ridiculous - lots of people on here saying they can't legally see their partners currently. And in the first lockdown there were a lot more of them because there were no support bubbles.

'Hoards dying in African countries for want of some basic medicines that no one CBA funding. Many lives lost to cancer because treatments are too expensive. So many young people killed on our roads because it’s too inconvenient to tighten up our traffic regulations.'

This mentality is bizarre. It is the scale of this virus, the mammoth impact on critical care.

Please do campaign for the very broad and worthy 'medicine for Africa' and 'tighter traffic regulations' though..

So as long as humans are clothed, supplied with food and kept in a wee room they're sorted. They don't need anything else. Gotcha 🤣 my god.

I could honestly understand it if people would just be honest and say that they are scared and that they are pro-lockdown because they want to keep themselves and their families safe. That's understandable, that's normal. They insist on pretending that they are selfless wonderful individuals that want to protect other people, and it isn't true, it is for their own benefit.

It doesn’t really matter though, does it?

It’s crystal clear to an outsider what’s going on.

People tell themselves all kinds of bollocks to feel better about their beliefs/actions.

It's not because I'm a selfless wonderful individual it's because I understand how a virus works and I understand that the higher the rate of transmission is, the more chance that it will affect me or someone close to me. Its also knowing that if hospitals are overrun and someone I love needs an IT bed then it won't be available.

It's not rocket science but it is basic level science. I'm honestly surprised how many people don't understand it.

This mentality is bizarre. It is the scale of this virus, the mammoth impact on critical care. Please do campaign for the very broad and worthy 'medicine for Africa' and 'tighter traffic regulations' though

I do. Cheers.

And I hope you realise 1.35 million people die on the roads on an annual basis across the globe.

@Perfect28

In fact the NHS question stands to any of your adoring followers too.

🙄

it's because I understand how a virus works

We all understand how a virus works, sheesh, you’re like a self important teenager yapping on about this.

It’s the efficacy of measures taken to halt spread weighed up against their cost that the rest of us are grappling with. Try taking it to the next level.

@AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter

"adoring follower"? because I agreed with a post online?

Alrighty then.......

@Perfect28 is being a colossal divvy 😂😂

@secretllama you clearly have misunderstood the entire concept of a hierarchy.

@TheKeatingFive
Is it crystal clear what's going on? Wait let me guess, it's all a method of mind control yeah? Virus doesn't exist or is being blown out of proportion and it's all a cover for an erosion of our liberties etc etc.

Want to get yourself over to a conspiracy board rather than mumsnet?

@Perfect28 is being a colossal divvy 😂

Oh I know! lol it bemuses me

In my mind this is the last time. I have complied with the previous lockdowns and tried to stay positive but I have now had enough. I am angry at having to home school again and worried about the mental health of my 8 yo. I am now angry that the government fucked this up so badly in March and coming out of the first lockdown so now we are in this position. Before I thought it's necessary and I would do it for the greater good.

I can't maintain work, study and schooling two children much longer. But if they shut the schools again what choice do I have.? My own mental health is going down hill and I am exhausted.

Wait let me guess, it's all a method of mind control yeah? Virus doesn't exist or is being blown out of proportion and it's all a cover for an erosion of our liberties etc etc.

I have never said anything REMOTELY like that.

Some reading comprehension classes look like they’re in order for you. Adult education is a wonderful thing.

'It's not because I'm a selfless wonderful individual it's because I understand how a virus works and I understand that the higher the rate of transmission is, the more chance that it will affect me or someone close to me. Its also knowing that if hospitals are overrun and someone I love needs an IT bed then it won't be available.'

Yes. As long as my family all stay well I can cope with the massive inconveniences restrictions brings. It is so galling when you do your best yet others don't, because they 'need a hug'. Don't we all! Especially those currently in hospital with the virus whose condition the flouters behaviour could well have contributed to.

[quote AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter]**@Perfect28 is being a colossal divvy 😂

Oh I know! lol it bemuses me[/quote]
That’s because we’re thick and don’t UNDERSTAND 😂😜

@thekeatingfive

Those rta deaths still happen, and now we can add another big global killer to the mix too.

I keep reiterating the point about basic science and how viruses transmit because some people clearly do not understand.

@Fembot123

I don't think in this entire argument you've contributed anything of value.

They may have even been flouters themselves @GetOffYourHighHorse 😱😂

@Perfect28 I do understand a hierarchy thanks. Yours might be different from mine though, as human interaction is pretty essential for me. I'd rather be dead than just have my (your definition of) basic needs met.