How long will people agree to make these sacrifices for?

[DappledOliveGroves]

Inspired by another thread here.

Let's assume the vaccines don't do what they should - either because the virus mutates so rapidly or because our government can't manage to adhere to Pfizer's protocol and a lone dose does nothing to protect people.

Then what?

For all those champing at the bit for curfews, harsher lockdowns, further restrictions on civil liberties - I'm genuinely curious - how long are you willing to maintain this status quo?

Would you be happy to still be in this lockdown in a year? Two years? Five years? Even if the lockdowns are eased and clamped down again, would you be willing to accept rolling lockdowns as a fact of life with no end in sight? At what point would those wanting tougher restrictions decide they can't live like this anymore?

I caught it at work. I wonder who I can blame.

@AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter
Thanks 'dear' (are we really using sexist derogatory language, OK..) but that wasn't what I was replying to. Feel free to keep up.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'It's a virus, we are not in control and trying to pretend otherwise just smacks of Western privilege'

'Smacks of western privilege'. Jesus, it's a pandemic. You do know that means global, right?

'The cost of lockdown cannot be justified. Denying freedom of association, destroying businesses, screwing over the youth, plunging people into poverty, driving up suicide rates, for a virus that kills around 1% of people, most of whom are elderly, is abhorrent'

'Screwing over the youth' 🙄. It isn't just that it kills the elderly, whom you think are all conveniently at an end of life stage anyway, it is the thousands of previously fit people requiring critical care. I guarantee a few weeks on a ventilator and lengthy rehab will play havoc with your mental health too.

Please watch the news occasionally.

Yea, and in so many countries like Malawi, India, South Africa, it's just another way to die. Millions die from malaria, TB, poverty. Death is a part of life. We think, because we're in the West, that death is horrendous and must be avoided at all costs. To hold that view is inherently privileged. Try having that discussion with someone living in poverty in Malawi and see how you get on.

[quote Perfect28]@AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter
Thanks 'dear' (are we really using sexist derogatory language, OK..) but that wasn't what I was replying to. Feel free to keep up.[/quote]
Says the person who called me an "adoring follower". You give out rudeness, expect to get it back DEAR.

Yea, and in so many countries like Malawi, India, South Africa, it's just another way to die. Millions die from malaria, TB, poverty. Death is a part of life. We think, because we're in the West, that death is horrendous and must be avoided at all costs. To hold that view is inherently privileged. Try having that discussion with someone living in poverty in Malawi and see how you get on

Exactly,. Noone gave a shit about people dying before, Suddenly, now its at their door, they are calling others "selfish".

The hypocrisy and privilege is mind blowing

@MadameBlobby
What basic human need are you referring to? The need to socialise? As far as I'm aware the rules don't enforce solitary confinement. And last time I checked, being able to hug your mum didn't count as a basic human need.
Shelter
Water
Food

@AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter

Quite some claim to state that other people didn't care about others 'before'.

Speak for yourself.

The Spanish flu outbreak lasted between one and two years and killed 228,000 people in Britain. Of course this was long before the NHS, antibiotics and intensive care was available.

Human contact
Education

Are also basic needs and the others you list either can’t be met unless people can go to work.

Three or four people chiming in with 'completely agree', pretty amusing. And last time I checked adoring follower isn't sexist. On a forum mostly made up of women. But you carry on.

@MadameBlobby

Human contact Education

Are also basic needs and the others you list either can’t be met unless people can go to work.

Agree with this

And last time I checked, being able to hug your mum didn't count as a basic human need.

How utterly lacking in understanding of how humans function.

@MadameBlobby
Sorry but they don't become basic human needs just because you claim them to be.

I think a lot of the problem is there is no hope. Lockdown 1 was only for 3 weeks.... then another 3 weeks (and another - I forget?) But we did eventually come out of it and have a summer that resembled something like normal.

Then the children when to school and carried on at school, during lockdown 2 (the “firebreak”) and we were told christmas wouldn’t be cancelled. So there was hope it would only be for four weeks and we came out of it at the end.

Now it’s lockdown 3, with “it’s too soon to talk about easing restrictions by summer”, “act like you have the virus” “even with the vaccines we may not stop transmission so there will still be restrictions”

Lots of people will say “but the scientists can’t say yet, it’s too early” - but without a exit plan, hope is gone and honestly, what’s the point in fighting this? It isn’t going away, so do I stay at home for the rest of my life or take my chances.

Also, to deny we aren’t a inherently selfish species, is utter madness. We will do what is best for ourselves, not some unknown faceless person we don’t know. You really can’t deny human nature (or you can and compliance will only last on it for so long). Surely the policy makers have to have one eye on this basis fact of life - do people really give a second thought to their neighbours house on fire, if their own house is also burning?

I agree dappled imagine how we would look to these countries they way we are dealing with this. Shutting down everything and expecting the state to pay for people to feed their families to stop people dying in large numbers , something they’ve had to cope with for years whilst no one gave a shit. Total privilege indeed.

Look, flouters carry on flouting but own it. Say its because you're selfish and couldn't care less about anyone who gets severely ill and dies.

Stop with the lame excuses about poverty and mental health. Those problems will be much worse with an uncontrolled virus.

'It's because the nhs is underfunded', I mean fgs the whole of Europe is struggling. Northern Italy anyone with their state of the art healthcare? Last year they were utterly overwhelmed. Mind it was on the News so you may have missed it.

Exactly,. Noone gave a shit about people dying before, Suddenly, now its at their door, they are calling others "selfish".

^^ this.

I could honestly understand it if people would just be honest and say that they are scared and that they are pro-lockdown because they want to keep themselves and their families safe. That's understandable, that's normal. They insist on pretending that they are selfless wonderful individuals that want to protect other people, and it isn't true, it is for their own benefit. You only have to look at their behaviour on here, insulting people left, right and centre, with no regard for the person behind the screen. That isn't caring about perfect strangers, as they profess to be so keen to do.

[quote Perfect28]@MadameBlobby
Sorry but they don't become basic human needs just because you claim them to be.[/quote]
How does the species continue without human contact?

Sorry but they don't become basic human needs just because you claim them to be.

They aren’t not basic human needs because you say so either.

I need to have an ‘in person’ relationship with my mum and dad. You have absolutely no authority to tell me I don’t.

@TheKeatingFive
You know some people don't have mums to hug right? If it were a basic human need how on earth do these people survive?

And yet we are meant to be the ones speaking from privelege.

I am following the rules but it’s so me and my family don’t get it. I don’t actively want anyone else to get it but I wouldn’t put up with these restrictions unless my family and I were at risk. And other people would feel the same about me and my family I’m sure. We all care about ourselves and our loved ones more than random strangers. Anyone who says they don’t is just virtue signalling.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

Look, flouters carry on flouting but own it. Say its because you're selfish and couldn't care less about anyone who gets severely ill and dies.

Stop with the lame excuses about poverty and mental health. Those problems will be much worse with an uncontrolled virus.

'It's because the nhs is underfunded', I mean fgs the whole of Europe is struggling. Northern Italy anyone with their state of the art healthcare? Last year they were utterly overwhelmed. Mind it was on the News so you may have missed it.

Poverty and mh are not lame excuses.

Do you not see harm from lockdown?

As I said I comply so it’s not an excuse. I can still see huge harm

Basic human needs are things you need to survive. They include clothes, shelter, food and warmth.

Not an 'in person relationship' with your parents.

Come at me with a decent argument please.

Exactly,. Noone gave a shit about people dying before, Suddenly, now its at their door, they are calling others "selfish".

Quite. Hoards dying in African countries for want of some basic medicines that no one CBA funding. Many lives lost to cancer because treatments are too expensive. So many young people killed on our roads because it’s too inconvenient to tighten up our traffic regulations.

No shits given.

But Covid on the other hand, we’re expected to give up everything for.

'Exactly,. Noone gave a shit about people dying before, Suddenly, now its at their door, they are calling others "selfish".'

Erm I've always 'given a shit about people dying'. When it is an infectious disease and our behaviour controls the spread then yes, I will call people selfish who are directly contributing to that spread. HTH.