How long will people agree to make these sacrifices for?

[DappledOliveGroves]

Inspired by another thread here.

Let's assume the vaccines don't do what they should - either because the virus mutates so rapidly or because our government can't manage to adhere to Pfizer's protocol and a lone dose does nothing to protect people.

Then what?

For all those champing at the bit for curfews, harsher lockdowns, further restrictions on civil liberties - I'm genuinely curious - how long are you willing to maintain this status quo?

Would you be happy to still be in this lockdown in a year? Two years? Five years? Even if the lockdowns are eased and clamped down again, would you be willing to accept rolling lockdowns as a fact of life with no end in sight? At what point would those wanting tougher restrictions decide they can't live like this anymore?

There is a plan though. It involves vaccinating the most vulnerable by Feb 15 and every adult by sept 2021. Anecdotally it sounds to me like the vaccination programme is going on OK - NHS colleagues all reporting getting vaccinated, older relatives the same. Of course they may not meet that target but I don't think it is right to say there is no plan? Or have I missed something?

I think @DappledOliveGroves was referring to an exit plan, not the vaccine plan.

@Perfect28

Wow *@dappledolivegroves* you would never survive a wartime scenario would you. As long as people are dying and suffering I'll continue to sacrifice my social life, yes.

We need a new Godwin's Law on MN that states that anyone who compares our current situation to "the war" has immediately lost the argument.

@southeastdweller

There is a plan though. It involves vaccinating the most vulnerable by Feb 15 and every adult by sept 2021. Anecdotally it sounds to me like the vaccination programme is going on OK - NHS colleagues all reporting getting vaccinated, older relatives the same. Of course they may not meet that target but I don't think it is right to say there is no plan? Or have I missed something?

I think @DappledOliveGroves was referring to an exit plan, not the vaccine plan.

My FIL is a retired GP. My MIL is a retired nurse. My SIL is a consultant paediatrician. Today's fun talk on the family WhatsApp group chat has been that the South African variant may not respond to the vaccines. In light of this, and the fact that the government want to give the second vaccine at 12 week intervals, rather than 3 weeks, forgive me if I fail to have faith in any plan the government comes up with.

Why lost the argument? The two are pretty comparable, no clear or defined ending, deadly and mostly out of our control.

I hope you tell your SIL regularly your views of NHS staff, and I assume you have private cover for your family yes?

'My FIL is a retired GP. My MIL is a retired nurse. My SIL is a consultant paediatrician. Today's fun talk on the family WhatsApp group chat has been that the South African variant may not respond to the vaccines. In light of this, and the fact that the government want to give the second vaccine at 12 week intervals, rather than 3 weeks, '

A retired GP and a children's Dr! So no virologists, microbiologists or epidemiologists then on this expert group chat then, whose opinion would actually be relevant?

What a scaremongering post 🙄.

What I don't understand is all the people who say they will continue to do this to save as many lives as possible, prevent suffering and protect the vulnerable.

Totally ignoring the fact that the longer this goes on the more lives will be ruined and lost as a result of lockdown, more people will continue to suffer, so many people will commit suicide with their mental health completely shot to pieces and livelihoods down the drain.

There are no good options in this but I definitely feel the balance has swayed completely towards protecting the elderly with absolutely no thought given to children or young people. I know the NHS needs to be protected but it is not easy at all for young people, who know their risk from the virus is tiny, yet are suffering in many other ways. They have sacrificed so much and I would actually like to see what is going to done to make life better for them in the future, and also what will be done about the generational inequalities that existed before the pandemic but have only been magnified during this.

Donotdelete

No, we ARE NOT the only country still in lockdown.
Suggest you look at the list on the BBC website !

Other European countries have overnight curfews, and mandatory mask - wearing outdoors.
Currently in Cyprus , individuals are permitted to go out twice per day for limited specific reasons ( work, shopping for essentials , etc ) - and they are required to request permission by text beforehand.

@Perfect28

I hope you tell your SIL regularly your views of NHS staff, and I assume you have private cover for your family yes?

I have private cover, yes, as does my family. And I rarely speak to my SIL.

😂 at the idea of us being the only country still in lockdown. Are people really so ignorant about what’s going on elsewhere? There are countries announcing curfews this week and specifically saying it’s because of concern about the British variant. You know, the one that’s running rampant here while the estate agents are still open.

@strawberrylipstickstateofmind

There is actual concrete evidence of deaths. 'increased suicide rates' are speculative. Mental health is extremely important but actually living has to take priority over mental health, surely you agree? If suicide rates were comparable with, or exceeding covid deaths and that was evidenced then yes, you may have an argument. Until then, no.

It’s so frustrating that the U.K. didn’t really lock down properly in the first place. And with the disregard of Cummings, Gove, Johnson who all broke lockdown early on, it’s no surprise people didn’t adhere to the rules from the start. I am incredibly angry at this government for their complacency and elitist, exceptionality attitude.

I live in a very, very large country which closed its borders fast and locked down HARD - with lockdown enforced aggressively by police, state governments and the public, so compliance was very high. We are now no longer in lockdown, and haven’t been for 2 or 3 months - life is largely back to normal here but without the very large gatherings that are a part of the culture here. Bars open, restaurants open. Immediate border action taken to threats of the virus and mandatory quarantine from other countries.

A proper lockdown, and one that was enforced and adhered to, worked. I am so frustrated and sad for UK friends and family who have followed the rules and been shat on by unclear government rules, reluctance to close borders or for a short while businesses, and by selfish people failing to following the rules from the start. I can totally see why everyone is really fed up.

@dappledolivegroves

Well good for you. Screw the rest of us then eh. As long as you're OK and continue to see your friends.

@LucilleTheVampireBat

Nobody including the government want this lockdown to last any longer than necessary why would they

If we are to believe that they are speaking honestly then yes, plenty of people want it to last. Many of them post on here. There are posters who openly admit that they want this to continue until covid is eradicated. Not under control, but completely gone. Which is obviously never going to happen.

maybe those people need an offshore prison built for them to live in then ! it beggars belief that there are people out there who want this

Oh although public transport here is still quite quiet. The pictures of the tube in London are so alien here - but after a year, people need to get to work. Here, the government enforced the pain but for a relatively short time.

@DeusEx

It’s so frustrating that the U.K. didn’t really lock down properly in the first place. And with the disregard of Cummings, Gove, Johnson who all broke lockdown early on, it’s no surprise people didn’t adhere to the rules from the start. I am incredibly angry at this government for their complacency and elitist, exceptionality attitude.

I live in a very, very large country which closed its borders fast and locked down HARD - with lockdown enforced aggressively by police, state governments and the public, so compliance was very high. We are now no longer in lockdown, and haven’t been for 2 or 3 months - life is largely back to normal here but without the very large gatherings that are a part of the culture here. Bars open, restaurants open. Immediate border action taken to threats of the virus and mandatory quarantine from other countries.

A proper lockdown, and one that was enforced and adhered to, worked. I am so frustrated and sad for UK friends and family who have followed the rules and been shat on by unclear government rules, reluctance to close borders or for a short while businesses, and by selfish people failing to following the rules from the start. I can totally see why everyone is really fed up.

Are you in Europe? Or I’m guessing Aus

We are in the shit but it’s not comparable. Better for us to look at Europe

The only thing is if you do loathe the restrictions, and want them to end, you’re better off not saying you will break them.

Behavioural reasons within public

@Bumpsadaisie thank god for people like you who make these threads readable.

I’m in an Asian country, Marsha.

@DeusEx

I’m in an Asian country, Marsha.

Oh that’s more interesting

[quote Perfect28]@dappledolivegroves

Well good for you. Screw the rest of us then eh. As long as you're OK and continue to see your friends.[/quote]
If you don't like the answer then don't ask the question! And my private healthcare is irrelevant in the sense of Covid treatment in a pandemic anyway. They won't deal with emergency admissions.

And you’re right Marsha - it isn’t a comparable country to the U.K. in many ways. Not an island, porous border arrangements with several neighbours, extremely high levels of extreme poverty etc

This thread has been playing on my mind, it's been busy since lunch I see.

We are all frustrated. I've realised it's just school I need back, I'd take a longer lockdown if we could only have that. It's incredibly hard, who'd have thought we'd have wished for something we took for granted.

@DeusEx

And you’re right Marsha - it isn’t a comparable country to the U.K. in many ways. Not an island, porous border arrangements with several neighbours, extremely high levels of extreme poverty etc

I’m up for hearing about how other countries have managed just overloaded now with the two that are always mentioned, and have little comparison for many reasons but mostly timing

The ‘proper lockdown’ chat is getting really tiresome.

The first lockdown in the U.K. was very successful, compliance was high and numbers came right down. Opening up was the problem.

And every time you have to lockdown, you need to factor in lower compliance. Diminishing returns and all that.