How long will people agree to make these sacrifices for?

[DappledOliveGroves]

Inspired by another thread here.

Let's assume the vaccines don't do what they should - either because the virus mutates so rapidly or because our government can't manage to adhere to Pfizer's protocol and a lone dose does nothing to protect people.

Then what?

For all those champing at the bit for curfews, harsher lockdowns, further restrictions on civil liberties - I'm genuinely curious - how long are you willing to maintain this status quo?

Would you be happy to still be in this lockdown in a year? Two years? Five years? Even if the lockdowns are eased and clamped down again, would you be willing to accept rolling lockdowns as a fact of life with no end in sight? At what point would those wanting tougher restrictions decide they can't live like this anymore?

@MarshaBradyo

Bump are your dc back in again as KW?

I can’t do that 42 terms thing. It’s just washing over the fact it’s a big deal to miss school for 2 out of three terms.

It might help if you have had more in class time as KW but no not really doing much in terms of an argument to convince.

No they are out of school now. I was def a KW first time round but don't consider myself one now - bit outing to say why but the nature of my work has changed since autumn last year. During spring and summer I was doing a job central to the govt. covid response.

DH remains a KW (NHS medic).

We are the ONLY country still in lockdown. Despite never really locking down, America’s death rate is comparable to our own. I wonder this as I read the paper which tells me that “England is leading the world”. I am sure that all the other countries are laughing at us being the only failure still in lockdown whilst bragging we are the best. It seems as if they are taking perverse pleasure in making us suffer at this moment.

Young people parties etc - sorry but these idiots are prolonging our lockdown misery glad fines being brought in - we are all in this together ! Let’s all just follow the rules for a month and see if we can reduce the pressure on the NHS

'Flame me I really don't care, I see my mother, my friend and her daughter came to my house earlier to play with my child, I wear my mask and that's it. The government has done a really good job of making it everyone else's responsibility and some of the people on here get very hysterical about it'

Of course we all know there's loads of people flouting, you just sound so very proud of yourself though. I'm not 'hysterical' about it, just my parents mean too much to me for me to take selfish risks. Vaccinations are being rolled out you know.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

Not proud, just honest

dappledolivegroves

I just sit here, day after day, with my jaw on the floor, that people are willing to have such a fundamental right - to spend time with others - taken away from them, with no exit plan.

Yes this^^ it absolutely stuns me

This summer’s the cut off for me. This winter I can sort of make sense of because it’s a new thing, and governments are struggling to work out what it is and deal with it. And now we’re sort of (oh please) within sight of summer, so feel I can cope. But another winter like this? Absolutely not. No no no nooooo.

Those who talk about it in regards to the NHS collapsing, the NHS is finished anyway etc do you realise that whatever health system we had public, private or something in between would not be able to cope with the numbers of extremely sick people coming through the doors at the moment

Yes of course, but to borrow the medical terminology that's where the difference between acute and chronic comes into it - and many believe the the problems in the NHS are indeed chronic

Sadly "chronic" can't be cured quickly, which is why sooner or later some very difficult decisions may need to be made if faith in the vaccines proves misplaced

Also, if we end up with things shutting down in autumn, that will be three school years compromised, and I can’t see how children are expected to come back from that (I don’t know how they will anyway tbh). My SD started uni last september - if two out of three years are ruined, it will be devastating. It can’t go on past this summer.

@clopper

dappledolivegroves

I just sit here, day after day, with my jaw on the floor, that people are willing to have such a fundamental right - to spend time with others - taken away from them, with no exit plan.

Yes this^^ it absolutely stuns me

There is a plan though. It involves vaccinating the most vulnerable by Feb 15 and every adult by sept 2021. Anecdotally it sounds to me like the vaccination programme is going on OK - NHS colleagues all reporting getting vaccinated, older relatives the same.

Of course they may not meet that target but I don't think it is right to say there is no plan? Or have I missed something?

Virus mutates? They can tweak the vaccine in six weeks and revaccinate the most vulnerable within 4 months

And if another mutation - maybe even a vaccine resistant one - happens in that timescale? Then another, and another?

Apologies for the gloomy scenario, but this extensive faith in the vaccines gets to me sometimes

If another person says kids are 'resilient' I may scream. We can acknowledge this is having a major detrimental effect on the mental health of adults. Imagine if we all just told everyone who is struggling that 'oh your feelings arent real. You are resiliant'. My kids are suffering. I refuse to put them through this indefinitely. Anyone who thinks I should has lost their decency, or their brains.

@Puzzledandpissedoff I do understand that there are chronic issues with the NHS. My DH is a senior hospital consultant and is very involved in medical politics and I am a chronic patient with lifelong health condition so I have lived and breathed issues with the NHS for 20plus years but that's not the particular issue at the moment and its important to remember as many are dismissing the current problems as purely an NHS problem rather than a general healthcare capacity issue which is the primary issue atm.

@TwirpingBird

If another person says kids are 'resilient' I may scream. We can acknowledge this is having a major detrimental effect on the mental health of adults. Imagine if we all just told everyone who is struggling that 'oh your feelings arent real. You are resiliant'. My kids are suffering. I refuse to put them through this indefinitely. Anyone who thinks I should has lost their decency, or their brains.

Exactly this. Children may have been "resilient' for the first couple of weeks, but nearly a year on its not acceptable

Wow @dappledolivegroves you would never survive a wartime scenario would you. As long as people are dying and suffering I'll continue to sacrifice my social life, yes.

It really it’s the a problem for me or DH. We would be happy to stay home indefinitely. We are both medically fragile so we might have no other option.

The situation is different for DD. She will need to return to the world at least to some degree. She will need to be able to have friends her age, date if she wants, maybe even get married someday. I’m sure that will be possible, it just may look different than it did before.

I don't like much of my extended family, don't have masses of friends, not that wealthy to go out to eat and run a company with DH which tends to do work after hours so not that social. But even I am feeling it now. honestly it's been ok to have a bit of break from seeing my parents, but I do like to see them now and again. It's human nature to want to gather and chat and have company and a change of scenery with the kids.

I'd rather quality of life than longevity I think this is a big issue with parents. As shocking as it is to be fine and then go with a bang, that's what everyone wants. Most people have a prolonged deterioration and restricted life in their later years. Something has to get you sadly.

@Perfect28

Wow *@dappledolivegroves* you would never survive a wartime scenario would you. As long as people are dying and suffering I'll continue to sacrifice my social life, yes.

Crack on with that then.

“It really it’s” was supposed to be “it really isn’t”

OP the way you talk about the nhs and nhs staff is quite frankly disgraceful. I can only assume that you're pledging to never again use their services and if you were to end up in an emergency situation would refuse the ambulance. This is the only moral desicion you could make based on your childish and ignorant attitude. Unbelievable.

'There is a plan though. It involves vaccinating the most vulnerable by Feb 15 and every adult by sept 2021. Anecdotally it sounds to me like the vaccination programme is going on OK - NHS colleagues all reporting getting vaccinated, older relatives the same.'

This!

The 'plan' is as vaccinations rolled out, numbers come down then restrictions will lift.

... many are dismissing the current problems as purely an NHS problem rather than a general healthcare capacity issue which is the primary issue atm

Completely agree, wonkylegs

@2020quelhorreur

This summer’s the cut off for me. This winter I can sort of make sense of because it’s a new thing, and governments are struggling to work out what it is and deal with it. And now we’re sort of (oh please) within sight of summer, so feel I can cope. But another winter like this? Absolutely not. No no no nooooo.

But you're still waiting for the government for when pubs, restaurants, theatres, concerts, sports matches etc are back open to the public.

If another person says kids are 'resilient' I may scream

Me too. It’s so trite and (having worked with some troubled young people) sadly won’t be true in a lot of cases. Can’t work out if people genuinely believe this, are trying to make themselves feel better and avoid thinking about the impact on kids, or are deliberate trying to minimise/dismiss what young people are going through.

@x2boys

It's a virus ,not an unfair tax or a dictatorship .

No, it's the response to the virus that people are protesting, not the virus itself 🤨

The prolonged curtailment of individual freedom and the capacity to exercise free will.