How long will people agree to make these sacrifices for?

[DappledOliveGroves]

Inspired by another thread here.

Let's assume the vaccines don't do what they should - either because the virus mutates so rapidly or because our government can't manage to adhere to Pfizer's protocol and a lone dose does nothing to protect people.

Then what?

For all those champing at the bit for curfews, harsher lockdowns, further restrictions on civil liberties - I'm genuinely curious - how long are you willing to maintain this status quo?

Would you be happy to still be in this lockdown in a year? Two years? Five years? Even if the lockdowns are eased and clamped down again, would you be willing to accept rolling lockdowns as a fact of life with no end in sight? At what point would those wanting tougher restrictions decide they can't live like this anymore?

@NewYearLockdown my DD burst into tears today in the playground because a child stood beside her and said hi. She was shaking and sobbing and she just clung to me. She was terrified. I realised she has spent over a third of her life seeing just me and DH and basically nobody else. My baby was born on the first day of the second lockdown and hasn't been anywhere bar my house, playground and the GP. She hasn't been held by anyone. She hasn't had any family smile at her. She hasn't been exposed to any social environments or even basic germs. I am very scared for the impact this is having on our little ones. People will say 'but at least they dont have covid'. Sorry. Not good enough anymore. I am nearing the end of my willingness to keep my DDs locked away.

@DappledOliveGroves

*"But surely if everyone refused to comply with restrictions then the government would have little choice but to accept things.

If restaurants and gyms opened up, all shops, all venues across the country. What would happen? The police can't arrest everyone. Would they bring the army in and keep us in our houses under pain of death? I doubt it.

Look at Romania. Ceausescu was toppled by the will of millions of protesters. There has to be a tipping point at some stage."*

I wish people would stand together and refuse to comply. I do not understand why the majority of people are so willingly complying with the restrictions. None of which can work long term. But then I'm pretty much going along with them. I wear a mask (even though I'm highly doubtful of the usefulness). I stay in as much as possible. I'm wfh and homeschooling.

I assume there must be many others like us, absolutely fucking sick of the situation, who do not think these measures work but who are still going along with "the rules" because everyone else is.

I'd honestly prefer everything back to normal. The elderly and vulnerable can stay at home if they wish (with support from the government), everyone else makes their own risk assessment as to what they do in their day to day lives. So no enforced mask wearing, free to visit people, free to travel etc etc.

'My cleaner is still coming even though the Scot Gov says "essential maintenance of the home only" - well when I'm working part time from home, and trying to complete a post grad degree, and support kids with their learning, that's pretty fucking essential maintenance as far as I'm concerned.'

And there we have it. People doing what they like regardless of guidance and complaining because we're in this situation. Newsflash a lot of it is because of people thinking they can do what they like! 🙄

@RaspberryCoulis I think that's the right way to be TBH, and previously I was a die hard blind rule follower.

I was astounded when NS made new rules preventing the likes of self employed cleaners working, when at the time people were still allowed to swan off on holiday on a plane with hundreds of people without quarantine to some destinations.

The unfairness of that hit me, and since then I've felt that there is a horrible unfairness to all of this.

@StealthPolarBear

And apologies as this is a whine. I support lockdown, in general. I just hate the minimising.

Exactly. And they’re out in force in this thread saying lockdown doesn’t cause problems the virus does. I mean FFS. Lockdown is the lesser of two evils but stop pretending it’s a simple situation.

never has a user name been so appropriate, @GetOffYourHighHorse.

I'm not about to justify my cleaner still coming to you and how we manage her being here while we're in the house, as quite honestly it's none of your business. She wants to keep coming. I want her to keep coming. So she keeps coming.

Honeyhoops Would you be happy to sign a form that says, you would forsake any and all medical assistance in you caught Covid in your risk assessment?

'my DD burst into tears today in the playground because a child stood beside her and said hi. She was shaking and sobbing and she just clung to me'

That's awful. She was shaking?! You really need to reassure her that it's fine for people to say hi and you can still chat very easily with social distancing

I'm genuinely amazed people aren't rebelling more already - not just in terms of breaking rules but in terms of co-ordinated protest. I think we are a very compliant society without a history of protest (vs. e.g. the French). That doesn't mean we don't break rules, but we don't do it in a co-ordinated and organised way.

I think the way the pandemic impacts everyone has something to do with it - everyone has a granny, or a mum who has asthma, or a cousin with cancer. But I'm frustrated that there are some really obvious things the government could be doing to reduce the need for lockdowns (e.g. training tens of thousands of auxiliary medical staff to take the load off nurses/doctors so they can concentrate on the most specialised and difficult tasks and so we could reopen the nightingales) and make them much more scientific (e.g. closing schools separately from other restrictions to accurately assess the impact school closures have) and yet nobody is shouting about it.

So how many of your loved ones have you watched die of something fucking horrific, that isn't over quickly? I'm praying that they'll have euthanasia by the time I'm in my 80s or 90s or else I'll attempt the trip to Dignitas. Pneumonia used to be called 'old man's friend'.

I'm sorry - you think that because I know that covid is a horrible (and often drawn out) death, I haven't lost any loved ones in other ways, long term and debilitating ways?

I just have no words. You have no idea.
Why are you playing deaths against each other? It's a truly vile game to play. Deaths from all sorts of things can hurt horribly, and I have too much knowledge of that.

You've really upset me, and I often get angry at these threads these days, but rarely actually cry at them.

Pneumonia is no one's friend. That's said by people who haven't experienced the sharper edges of it and who think it's good that it ends someone's life of suffering. It's very likely to end mine at some point because I get it at least once a year. It's no bloody friend to me.

Your posts are lacking in compassion and I am just sickened by this whole thing

'Honeyhoops Would you be happy to sign a form that says, you would forsake any and all medical assistance in you caught Covid in your risk assessment?'

Oh yes, I would love the 'me cleaner's essential and I'll do as I please!' Types to refuse medical treatment. Of course they won't and shouldn't I suppose, but it's this bizarre expectation they are more important than others and if they need medical care it will miraculously be available. Lots of free critical care beds in cloud cuckoo land!

I have two friends who have not seen their grandchildren (both grandchildren are under 18 months & their first gc ) since spring. My first grandchild is due this spring. There is zero chance I am staying away from him/her(baby’s parents very much want us visiting). This is no way to live, those early baby days cannot be retrieved.

People won't tolerate lockdown forever. You only have to look at the rebellion against government in Italy and Poland to see this. Britain will be one of the last countries to disobey because people have been so brainwashed about protecting the NHS and don't realise what's happening in other parts of the world.

The NHS has been a poor, underfunded shit show for as long as I can remember and it's the same headlines and photos of ambulances queuing outside A&E every winter but people have forgotten that.

@StealthPolarBear

I don't want to go to the cinema I don't want to go to the pub I don't want to go to a cafe I don't want to go to soft play

I want to see my family. My mum and dad, my in laws, my aunts and uncles, my cousins, the children of tbe family. I want to interact with them normal. I want to hug them.

I get it, @StealthPolarBear, I do. My teenage dds, don't see anyone (because they want to protect their brother) I have pretty much shielded with ds, since March - I am scared for him, he is supposed to start secondary next year, there is no vaccine on the horizon for him. I didn't see my mum for months (after seeing her 3 times a week) due to shielding, and then she died suddenly, I was the only person at her funeral, I cleared her flat on my own in shock and utter grief. I haven't even been able to see my sister (who lives abroad) to hug her. ....as I say it is utter shit. I just don't know, at this stage what the alternative to lockdown is...and I'm tired of being painted as some privileged 'champing at the bit to lockdown' nitwit, for not accepting the idea of focused protection and rebellion against complying with public health guidelines.

I wonder how much support there will be for this when the lower to middle classes get a taste of workfare. Because according to Private Eye its on its way back as part of the Restart scheme.

My partner has a 6 month old grand daughter. He saw her twice, once July when she was born and then again in August. That’s it. I’ve not met the baby yet. There is also a great gran mother who has seen the baby once. We can’t go on like this. I will tolerate this until end of March and then I will be angry and if protests are organised I will join them.

@Sirius99
I didn't mean an actual RA, you know, just using your common sense. But no I would not agree to forsake medical assistance if I caught Covid. I've paid taxes for over 20 years so why should I? Are the obese, smokers, alcoholics, drug addicts etc denied NHS treatment and ongoing care if they need it?

If I was being harsh I'd say given the state the NHS is in, and the extremely poor prognosis, even with treatment, that anyone over say 80, maybe 85, with covid should be denied hospital admission.

I received a letter yesterday to say that the National bowel screening programme for the over 55s has been stopped for good. That is tragic. More people will die from cancer.

'Britain will be one of the last countries to disobey because people have been so brainwashed about protecting the NHS'

The 'protect the NHS slogan' shouldn't have been used imo as some thick people take it literally. As in protect it from having to do any work. When really it should have been 'stay home, stop the spread, ensure a critical bed will be available if you need one, save your life'. Not as catchy though.

@SoSaidTheLlama
Unfortunately DH is a dr currently working on Covid wards. It's not peaceful for patients. It's traumatic, frightening and lonely. It's a horrible way to be ill and for some to die.

Restrictions are really hard and if given the option tomorrow of course I'd give them up tomorrow. However realistically I do wonder what people really think the alternative is at the moment.

Healthcare is overwhelmed to unbelievable levels which means it cannot function properly for all patients whether or not they have Covid and because our country has failed to get a handle on this (mainly because our government are a bunch of indecisive incompetent shits) staff have been working under serious pressure for a prolonged period of time. They are either broken or at breaking point, they cannot keep going like this forever, it is physically and mentally impossible.

Last time I checked we don't have anyone to step in their shoes when they can't work any longer.

So it's pretty much we have to accept some restrictions or we accept we cannot access medical care when we need it whether that's for Covid or the multitude of other issues such as heart attacks, cancer, car accidents etc. No one wants to make that choice but it's the choice we are forced to make by the circumstances.

Our government has fucked the process up (I don't envy their job at the moment however I also think they have been particularly rubbish at it) and prolonged the restrictions whilst also undermining them which is why we are the worlds leading country for spreading the virus.

@HazeyJaneII

The Great Barrington Declaration was a feasible alternative but it's like swearing in church to say that, such has it been dismissed without any examination. It was not a feasible alternative, it was examined by 1000s of scientists who disagreed with it. Who are The Vulnerable? How do we protect The Vulnerable?

You do know who the vulnerable are. That is ridiculous.

The NHS has been a poor, underfunded shit show for as long as I can remember and it's the same headlines and photos of ambulances queuing outside A&E every winter but people have forgotten that.
And every Dr and hospital worker will tell you that it is worse now than any of those Winters.
The NHS has saved my life, and my ds's life (on numerous occasions) - they are not overwhelmed because they are shit, they are nearly overwhelmed because there is a pandemic. And yes, they have been chronically underfunded...but honestly the comparison in care between the NHS and Virgincare (who took over half of children's services in this area) is stark.

@Madhairday You've really upset me, and I often get angry at these threads these days, but rarely actually cry at them.
Pneumonia is no one's friend.
It is sometimes a dark place here at the moment, don't be upset and don't be ground down. My ds has had pneumonia several times, leaving his lungs badly scarred...it's certainly not been his fucking friend.

I’m already at the point where I feel like going to a protest rally, I think I will comply until summer when things will hopefully be more normal, but if it all starts up again winter 2021 I would say enough is enough. It’s only January 21st and I am really struggling.

Honeyhoops, that’s a big call and what let them die in the streets or gasping for last breath on their living room floor

@Sirius99

StealthPolarBear, I know a lot of people that are glad not to see the in laws, can’t you meet up with one for a walk ( exercise)

Wow your posts just keep getting worse don’t they. Do you live in some kind of bubble where you only see one kind of person and so think everyone is the same? Just because you know people who hate their in-laws doesn’t mean that everyone does. Also not everyone lives close by to their family and friends so a walk isn’t possible. Some people are also unable to walk or go outside much. Some people don’t have technology to keep in touch online. Not everyone is the same.