How long will people agree to make these sacrifices for?

[DappledOliveGroves]

Inspired by another thread here.

Let's assume the vaccines don't do what they should - either because the virus mutates so rapidly or because our government can't manage to adhere to Pfizer's protocol and a lone dose does nothing to protect people.

Then what?

For all those champing at the bit for curfews, harsher lockdowns, further restrictions on civil liberties - I'm genuinely curious - how long are you willing to maintain this status quo?

Would you be happy to still be in this lockdown in a year? Two years? Five years? Even if the lockdowns are eased and clamped down again, would you be willing to accept rolling lockdowns as a fact of life with no end in sight? At what point would those wanting tougher restrictions decide they can't live like this anymore?

XenoBitch Oh come on most people have a smart phone or knows someone who has, even my 92 year old neighbour has an iPad

@Bumpsadaisie we have eradicated one virus - smallpox - which took decades. Every other virus has continued to circulate, mutate and generally carry on as it pleases.

Yes, we can and do vaccinate against some diseases like measles, which is great, but before we had that ability I don't believe we locked down society to stop its spread, even though children died from it.

@Sirius99

RichardMarxisinnocent You are allowed to travel to see someone who is dying, sorry for your loss

He dropped dead on the bathroom floor one morning completely unexpectedly, so what use would being allowed to travel to see someone who is dying have been to me?

I actually know 3 families who have left the UK because of Covid and not seeing it ending any time soon here. 1 to Dubai, 1 family emigrated to Australia and 1 to back to India. They now have a more "normal" life. So if it continues and other countries handle things better, anyone who can will leave.

@Sirius99

XenoBitch Oh come on most people have a smart phone or knows someone who has, even my 92 year old neighbour has an iPad

As I said, my dad had a dumb phone and no Internet access, please stop assuming everyone has the same access to technology as the people you know.

If I'm alive in my 90s, then I'd take Covid any day over dementia or cancer

I think you have a very stereotyped idea of what a cancer diagnosis can mean, and the variety of prognoses and the ever increasing options for treatment and management

@Sirius99

XenoBitch Oh come on most people have a smart phone or knows someone who has, even my 92 year old neighbour has an iPad

Lucky them. Some elderly have to choose between heating and eating.

@iVampire clearly I am referring to dying from cancer. Though I do question, in today's bizarre atmosphere, quite what anyone is actually supposed to die from?

@Fembot123

Yes for NOW *@Madhairday* the actual OP is talking about restrictions going on for years. I haven’t heard the term ‘Fat Head’ from an adult ever either 😂

Plenty of people on the thread are talking about now.

And I didn't say that. I was agreeing with the content of DameFannys post.

@Sirius99 unfortunately you are wrong. I have not seen my grandparents in a year and they don’t have mobile phones let alone FaceTime! Not even been able to speak to them on the phone!

If the media reports are true that older people are going to be deciding to forget social distancing once their vaccines kick in then I'll be feeling much less obliged to modify my own behaviour in the future.

I think this will be the final straw, to be honest. Saw a BBC article the other day that Saga holidays would insist on people being vaccinated before they went. Listened to my own DF talking about all the things he’s going to do “when he’s vaccinated”. There could be absolute uproar if the vaccinated groups are seen to be flouting the rules.

'Lockdown isn't the problem. Get it into your fat head. Coronavirus is the problem'

It's tedious isn't it. Bright sparks thinking there's an alternative as if no one had considered that and no, there isn't. What with it been a highly transmissible infectious disease and all.

It's shit. Who can possible think living without seeing people and doing fun things is anything but shit. It's necessary sadly, so grit your teeth and get on with it. I would suggest getting the virus or a family member getting it and potentially requiring hospital treatment is far worse than not been able to go to the cinema or the pub.

There are exemptions for end of life care, there are support bubbles , supermarkets are open. We really aren't in solitary confinement.

This is a tiny thing, but I would always tend to smile at a small child who caught my eye (not least as they remind me of mine when they were little and sweet). I still do it automatically, but I'm invariably wearing a mask. So the child learns no social interaction whatsoever. It is just awful.

It's really noticeable now isn't it? I automatically smile at babies/toddlers in buggies but realise now they cannot see me smiling and look at me blankly.
I feel really really sad for my teens missing out on social interaction/school/uni etc but with younger tots they are literally missing out on crucial stages of their development that they will never get back. It's just dreadful.

I won't join in anti lockdown demonstrations but I will go back to living normally, seeing people etc. Easter or thereabouts will be my family's cut off.

'Saw a BBC article the other day that Saga holidays would insist on people being vaccinated before they went. Listened to my own DF talking about all the things he’s going to do “when he’s vaccinated”. There could be absolute uproar if the vaccinated groups are seen to be flouting the rules.'

Imagine that! If all these pesky elderly and vulnerable people start flouting. Oh the irony.

@TiersBeforeBedtime

If I can say this in a way which doesn't sound horrible or hostile, sadpaper, part of the problem is our fear of death and our failure to accept that we are all going to die. Some of us will be younger, some of us older, some of us will die the kind of death that we all want for the people we love (namely of old age, peacefully, in their sleep) - but death is mostly not that kind. A couple of my relatives have died 'good' deaths (given that they were in their 90s and had all kinds of 'minor' but uncomfortable health issues - obviously). A friend of mine, a woman in her 30s, died an agonising death of aggressive cancer, leaving three young children. I know two people who have hanged themselves, one a teenager. Her parents found her body. And so on.

So much of the general desire to hide from Covid is based either on a complete denial that death is the only way out for all of us, or on a denial that there are other, vile, things that kill people. Covid is an unpleasant way to die. But it's not the only unpleasant way. And there are just as many people dying long, miserable, vile deaths now as a result of other lockdown-related problems as there are people dying of Covid.

There are also people dying "with Covid" (not "of Covid") who would have died regardless.

We have to accept that death is inevitable, and that an awful lot of us and our loved ones are going to die in unpleasant ways which will probably not involve Covid at all.

I agree but of course many people can’t accept this, hence why the government use ‘save lives’ and repeatedly emphasise the death numbers as part of their rhetoric to manipulate and guilt trip us.

Lockdown fatigue is really not about missing the pub or the cinema and it's more than a mild inconvenience.

I don't want to go to the cinema
I don't want to go to the pub
I don't want to go to a cafe
I don't want to go to soft play

I want to see my family. My mum and dad, my in laws, my aunts and uncles, my cousins, the children of tbe family. I want to interact with them normal. I want to hug them.

And apologies as this is a whine. I support lockdown, in general. I just hate the minimising.

If I'm alive in my 90s, then I'd take Covid any day over dementia or cancer.

This is the sort of deeply offensive rhetoric that is so polarising this discussion. You have no idea the pain of dying with covid. I have some idea because I have nearly died with pneumonia more than one time. The pain is hideous, 100 times worse than childbirth, every part of you screaming for release as you drown in your own lungs.

You are making light of a horrible death. Well done you.

@NataliaOsipova there was a whole section on radio 5 today covering the fact that Saga holidays will require their holidaymakers to prove they've had a vaccine. One of their decision makers was interviewed and it sounded so selfish and ill-considered to me. They plan to begin cruises in May.

It leaves a very bad taste in my mouth TBH. My family have lost so much, including a healthy business and my teenage son's mental health. We've had no help as we've slipped through every net. We live in Leicestershire so haven't seen a person outside our household since end of March, other than now being allowed to exercise with one person.

I am not sure that I can keep this up if I see the very people we've sacrificed so much to protect, swanning off and doing as they please despite being asked to continue to observe SD etc to protect us unvaccinated people.

If they behave like that and the vaccination effort fails they will have shot themselves in the foot!

'It's really noticeable now isn't it? I automatically smile at babies/toddlers in buggies but realise now they cannot see me smiling and look at me blankly.sad'

Babies and toddlers often stare back blankly at strangers even without a face cover. You mustn't feel sad

'I won't join in anti lockdown demonstrations but I will go back to living normally, seeing people etc. Easter or thereabouts will be my family's cut off'

Easter wil be your cut off point? , I think we'll be back in tiers anyway by then but if not I'm not so sure you can just decide on your own restrictions you know.

Oh and I also agree that over time I have complied less and less and that will continue.

We are doing the "big stuff". Working from home. Homeschooling the kids. Not seeing parents. Not attending house parties or having people into the house to socialise. Complying with the masks law in shops.

But other stuff? Meh. Met a friend for a walk yesterday and no we didn't stay apart 2 metres the whole time. Actively encouraged DD to go out this afternoon to meet one of her friends for a walk and get a coffee - she's 15 and the social isolation is HARD for her. Other child is just getting his coat on to meet a friend at the park for some illegal skateboarding and swinging on ropes, or whatever 12 year olds do at the park. They won't social distance and sanitise constantly and that's fine by me. My cleaner is still coming even though the Scot Gov says "essential maintenance of the home only" - well when I'm working part time from home, and trying to complete a post grad degree, and support kids with their learning, that's pretty fucking essential maintenance as far as I'm concerned.

We have a holiday booked for this Easter holiday - starting on Saturday 3rd April. By that point that should have vaccinated all the "vulnerable" according to the government's definition. At that point, all bets are off. Whatever St Nicola of Covid, Boris, the Scottish government or anyone else says.

@Madhairday

If I'm alive in my 90s, then I'd take Covid any day over dementia or cancer.

This is the sort of deeply offensive rhetoric that is so polarising this discussion. You have no idea the pain of dying with covid. I have some idea because I have nearly died with pneumonia more than one time. The pain is hideous, 100 times worse than childbirth, every part of you screaming for release as you drown in your own lungs.

You are making light of a horrible death. Well done you.

So how many of your loved ones have you watched die of something fucking horrific, that isn't over quickly?

I'm praying that they'll have euthanasia by the time I'm in my 80s or 90s or else I'll attempt the trip to Dignitas.

Pneumonia used to be called 'old man's friend'.

StealthPolarBear, I know a lot of people that are glad not to see the in laws, can’t you meet up with one for a walk ( exercise)

This is the sort of deeply offensive rhetoric that is so polarising this discussion. You have no idea the pain of dying with covid. I have some idea because I have nearly died with pneumonia more than one time. The pain is hideous, 100 times worse than childbirth, every part of you screaming for release as you drown in your own lungs.

You are making light of a horrible death. Well done you.

I can't speak for Covid but pneumonia can be a peaceful death for some. I used to work with palliative care patients in their own homes and I've seen more than one die by pneumonia. When you are very elderly and frail and with good palliative care it can be a relatively peaceful way to die. I saw my Grandmother die of pneumonia in hospital and she passed without a struggle or being aware of it.(She wasn't sedated, just drifted off. It was infinitely kinder than the hell of dementia that she was suffering. That truly was torture.