How long will people agree to make these sacrifices for?

[DappledOliveGroves]

Inspired by another thread here.

Let's assume the vaccines don't do what they should - either because the virus mutates so rapidly or because our government can't manage to adhere to Pfizer's protocol and a lone dose does nothing to protect people.

Then what?

For all those champing at the bit for curfews, harsher lockdowns, further restrictions on civil liberties - I'm genuinely curious - how long are you willing to maintain this status quo?

Would you be happy to still be in this lockdown in a year? Two years? Five years? Even if the lockdowns are eased and clamped down again, would you be willing to accept rolling lockdowns as a fact of life with no end in sight? At what point would those wanting tougher restrictions decide they can't live like this anymore?

'More people will die from cancer.'

They really won't. Currently with all the restrictions there's thousands of sad deaths from covid19. All routine ops have been postponed not because covid patients are more important just there's thousands more of them.

Anyone with a lump or bleeding will still be seen via the 2 week wait.

'I’m already at the point where I feel like going to a protest rally'

Jesus. A protest rally when there's a superspreading variant. Great plan!

[quote Chaotic45]@NataliaOsipova there was a whole section on radio 5 today covering the fact that Saga holidays will require their holidaymakers to prove they've had a vaccine. One of their decision makers was interviewed and it sounded so selfish and ill-considered to me. They plan to begin cruises in May.

It leaves a very bad taste in my mouth TBH. My family have lost so much, including a healthy business and my teenage son's mental health. We've had no help as we've slipped through every net. We live in Leicestershire so haven't seen a person outside our household since end of March, other than now being allowed to exercise with one person.

I am not sure that I can keep this up if I see the very people we've sacrificed so much to protect, swanning off and doing as they please despite being asked to continue to observe SD etc to protect us unvaccinated people.

If they behave like that and the vaccination effort fails they will have shot themselves in the foot! [/quote]
I agree.

Sorry but i'm not "altruistic" or "selfless" enough to do this indefinitely. Why the hell would anybody give up social interaction etc. For years !?!

@Coffeeandcocopops

I received a letter yesterday to say that the National bowel screening programme for the over 55s has been stopped for good. That is tragic. More people will die from cancer.

They have stopped one part (The scope screening) - which they have been trying to roll put since 2013, partly this is due to the pandemic, but there are other factors. The bowel screening programme is being extended to 50+, there is more about it here scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2021/01/14/bowel-scope-screening-to-stop-in-england/amp/

On a personal level I'm not too bothered about seeing family and friends, or going to pubs or restaurants. I'm not very emotionally attached to family and never hugged them at any time pre-Covid anyway. I'm pregnant right now and I'm quite relieved not to have to deal with the fussiness of my family around the birth.

I'm more bothered about the soft play and access to other leisure facilities which we used to attend as a family, and I'm increasingly worried about schools repeatedly closing (mine doesn't start school until next year, I thought the pandemic would be over by then but now I'm not too sure). Thankfully my dd is in nursery which has maintained some normality for her, and we've made sure we accessed all the places that were open whenever restrictions were lifted.

But I can't really break the rules regarding those places - if they are closed then they are closed. If things look like they are going to drag on for years (4 years+) then we could consider moving overseas (we have citizenship).

@Sirius99 DM was having to run a farm at eight years old. Because Nonno was conscripted into the Italian Army to fight. She says this feels worse. So i will take her word over yours thanks.

@Sirius99

Throughout the lockdowns we as a family have continued to see close relatives (parents, siblings, elderly aunts). I have met up with friends a few times (individually in their homes). My DH also meets up with a couple of friends regularly. My shielding aunt and uncle (in their 90s) have refused to follow the advice and have used public transport and gone shopping throughout.

We had a UK holiday in the summer and ate out at restaurants. We get take aways weekly. I get shopping delivered but also go shopping if I need to. I do not wipe my shopping down. My husband is self employed and has worked throughout (involves going inside peoples houses).

No one I know and no one I see has had Covid. Some people I know of have tested positive but were not poorly at all (tested due to T&T or through work).

I obviously feel for people who have lost family or friends but we can not go on like this. The percentage of people who have died of Covid (even going off the governments ridiculous figures) is still less than 1%.

Not much longer. Huge sacrifice for a tiny gain.

There's no way people would comply to an extended lockdown.
Children need to be educated and socialised in school.
Young people need to go out and meet each other, experience life.
People need to be able to see their friends and families.
Fine to put things on hold for a year or so but there is no way I am living like this indefinitely. I will start to see friends and visit family. End of.
Yes, I understand the need to protect those who medically vulnerable, including the elderly, but not at the cost of young people's futures. After all, they are the ones who will be paying for this shitstorm in years to come. The elderly won't be. They've had their lives and the truth is they are going to die sooner. And if that makes me evil, so be it.
Also, on a practical note, furlough can't go on forever so what happens to all those people?

[quote TwirpingBird]@NewYearLockdown my DD burst into tears today in the playground because a child stood beside her and said hi. She was shaking and sobbing and she just clung to me. She was terrified. I realised she has spent over a third of her life seeing just me and DH and basically nobody else. My baby was born on the first day of the second lockdown and hasn't been anywhere bar my house, playground and the GP. She hasn't been held by anyone. She hasn't had any family smile at her. She hasn't been exposed to any social environments or even basic germs. I am very scared for the impact this is having on our little ones. People will say 'but at least they dont have covid'. Sorry. Not good enough anymore. I am nearing the end of my willingness to keep my DDs locked away.[/quote]
That's dreadful
W

You do know who the vulnerable are. That is ridiculous.
My 10 year old ds has been deemed vulnerable...many people (young and old) who have shielded for the best part of a year are vulnerable.

Oops fat fingers
Meant to say:'We really are failing our children, and for what?

Honeyhoops You are very lucky then, it’s not just about the deaths, it’s also about hospital beds being used up not leaving any capacity for any other illnesses or accidents that might occur needing hospital treatment or routine surgeries that are cancelled, etc

My aunt's son lost his MIL to COVID earlier this week. She is a very religious and law-abiding citizen. She has taken the decision to ignore all rules from now on and will see family. This is a woman in her late 60's, a grandmother and a retired nurse (married to a police officer).

I will only obey the rules in as much as there is no option for me to break them via restrictions. Arbitrary rules, I will willingly and knowingly break if it suits me.

Have you watched the film Songbird yet?

MercyBooth Sorry but in what way could this be possibly worse than the Second World War

[quote Honeyhoops]@Sirius99

Throughout the lockdowns we as a family have continued to see close relatives (parents, siblings, elderly aunts). I have met up with friends a few times (individually in their homes). My DH also meets up with a couple of friends regularly. My shielding aunt and uncle (in their 90s) have refused to follow the advice and have used public transport and gone shopping throughout.

We had a UK holiday in the summer and ate out at restaurants. We get take aways weekly. I get shopping delivered but also go shopping if I need to. I do not wipe my shopping down. My husband is self employed and has worked throughout (involves going inside peoples houses).

No one I know and no one I see has had Covid. Some people I know of have tested positive but were not poorly at all (tested due to T&T or through work).

I obviously feel for people who have lost family or friends but we can not go on like this. The percentage of people who have died of Covid (even going off the governments ridiculous figures) is still less than 1%. [/quote]
Er ... is it just me?

But it wouldn't be 1% without the restrictions would it? It is 1% with the restrictions.

Without the restrictions it would be a much greater percentage, and you would certainly "know and see" people with Covid because transmission would be much greater, loads of people would have it, and loads of people would be seriously ill with it or die of it.

In fact the NHS would be overwhelmed and many patients would be dying at home untreated. It would be a national scandal.

@Sirius99
No let them die at home. If I was over 80 with an illness I was highly unlikely to survive, or be left with ongoing health issues if I did, I'd much rather die at home.

If my elderly dad (who is actually in ok health) became seriously ill with covid I'd rather he was at home where I could at least be with him than dying on a hospital ward with strangers.

He made the choice to allow me and his grandchildren to visit him throughout and to come to ours for Christmas. He is obviously happier to risk covid than spend months (years?!) at home alone.

Everyone should be able to make that choice.

@TwirpingBird Can somebody please tweet this to a twit in government?

@NewYearLockdown my DD burst into tears today in the playground because a child stood beside her and said hi. She was shaking and sobbing and she just clung to me. She was terrified. I realised she has spent over a third of her life seeing just me and DH and basically nobody else. My baby was born on the first day of the second lockdown and hasn't been anywhere bar my house, playground and the GP. She hasn't been held by anyone. She hasn't had any family smile at her. She hasn't been exposed to any social environments or even basic germs. I am very scared for the impact this is having on our little ones. People will say 'but at least they dont have covid'. Sorry. Not good enough anymore. I am nearing the end of my willingness to keep my DDs locked away.

Bumpsadaisie I’m with you, it’s amazing to think what would have happened and what the figures would be for deaths now if it just ran wild, it would probably have been shorter

@HazeyJaneII thank you. Your kindness means a lot.
I'm so sorry to hear about your DS.
I have a lifetime of scars from it and it hurts every day. And that's why posts minimising covid deaths really upset me, because I know what it feels like.

There are people on here who are seriously mentally unwell and MNHQ should regulate posts more. Some of the things they post like this, being willing to do this indefinitely, even for years more is worrying and I don't think they are mentally sound.

@Sirius99

StealthPolarBear, I know a lot of people that are glad not to see the in laws, can’t you meet up with one for a walk ( exercise)

Prime example of someone who can't think outside their (narrow) experience.

No we can't meet up outside with parents/inlaws because:

1. It's a 3 hour journey there.
2. It's a 3 hour journey back.
3. We're not allowed in the house to use the loo.
4. We don't really want to be weeing in the street.
5. It's January, raining and cold.

Not everyone has relatives living in the same town, the same county, the same COUNTRY.

What most people want is to be able to pop down for the day, or for a weekend, stay over, have a meal, spend some proper time together.

@Sirius99

MercyBooth Sorry but in what way could this be possibly worse than the Second World War

I don't know - complete absence of any meaningful human interaction ?

In a war you can still see friends and family, go out to the pub (albeit with a blackout). You can meet and go to dinner, though the food choices may be limited by rationing. You can go to work and not have to work from home. Schools were open. You could travel to other areas of the country.

Yes, you might get killed. You might lose loved ones. But I'd take that over this pandemic.

@Bumpsadaisie

Yes it most likely would be more than 1%, but perhaps not massively so as the majority of people currently trapped at home would not actually die, or even require hospital treatment if they did get Covid.

Also the number of people dying of other illnesses due to being unable to get adequate medical attention, or due to MH issues may well be less. The government needs to focus on protecting the elderly and vulnerable so that the rest of us can live our lives.

Restrictions don’t reduce the percentage fatality rate. That’s the characteristic of the virus and that doesn’t change. They may reduce the overall death rate. Thought I’ve read articles that say the overall death toll would be the same it’s just spread out over a longer period.... therefore NHS copes ish but death rate would have been the same. We don’t know this for sure I just found the articles interesting. We can’t prove either way can we as we have had continual lockdowns. We’re just assuming our death toll would have been higher.

So it’s 1% (or less I thought?) lockdown or no lockdown. The absolute total is what the argument is about.