Can someone talk me into the vaccine?

[Cassie6]

Embarrassed to even be writing this. I work for the bloody NHS for gods sake. My children have had all their vaccinations. I'm really not anti vax in the slightest and I'm surprised that I feel this way but I'm really scared to get the vaccine.

I'm scared because there's no knowledge of if anything could happen long term after having it, 15+ years down the line? Like there have been no long term studies? Can someone with a bit more knowledge explain to me if this is actually a thing?

I've seen it explained on here to people countless times that it hasn't been rushed there's just not been the waiting time there usually is with vaccine development and I understand that but I still feel uneasy about the long term effects.

In my mind my children and I are at such a low risk of being seriously ill that there's not much point having it when it could go wrong. However working in the NHS this is not the attitude and I'm so miserable living in lockdown after lockdown I know I need to do my bit.

So can someone convince me. Can someone explain logically what I'm getting wrong and unnecessarily anxious about?

Looking at the Gov website is looking for guidelines, it's not doing our own research.

When people go to take the vaccine, those administering it will ask if you belong to a group for which the vaccine is not advised as per the guidelines. If not, then that is a problem, but they should.

They advise to speak to the GP because they will have a better idea from people's clinical records if the vaccine is more or less likely to cause problems and can assess it vs the risk of catching the disease itself.

The problem is that people don’t understand how robust double blind clinical trials are. They are the gold standard. The vaccines have all been through rigorous, well designed trials and approved by National regulatory bodies. It is very sad that people no longer trust experts or science.

I think this is because videos on YouTube are more accessible to some.

For what it’s worth I don’t know a single senior doctor who isn’t desperate to have a vaccine. There are some who are pregnant or have a history of previous anaphylactic reactions who can’t be vaccinated. Other than that, there should be no worries.

It is likely that vaccinated people don’t (or are much less likely to transmit the virus to others). Unfortunately robust evidence for this isn’t available yet, because it takes time to demonstrate robustly.

If you want this pandemic to end, and therefore the NHS to get back to normal functioning, please look at proper evidence (not just rumour and false information going around on the internet).

Thanks

@Lweji

Looking at the Gov website is looking for guidelines, it's not doing our own research.

When people go to take the vaccine, those administering it will ask if you belong to a group for which the vaccine is not advised as per the guidelines. If not, then that is a problem, but they should.

They advise to speak to the GP because they will have a better idea from people's clinical records if the vaccine is more or less likely to cause problems and can assess it vs the risk of catching the disease itself.

How could doctors know "if the vaccine is more or less likely to cause problems" if there is no data re immunocompromised people nor drug interaction data? That's where the issue is FOR ME, that's all I'm saying.

How could doctors know "if the vaccine is more or less likely to cause problems" if there is no data re immunocompromised people nor drug interaction data? That's where the issue is FOR ME, that's all I'm saying.

Have you talked to your GP about it? They will explain how useful they are.
Most likely, they will tell you exactly that you shouldn't take it.

Just don't go around telling people to do their own research when you mean to look at guidelines.

As you say, there is no data for immunocompromised people, so doing your own research won't uncover anything new anyway. Unless you mean to take the vaccine to produce your own data...?

[quote Frazzledmum55]@feelingverylazytoday my kids have never had a new vaccine. They’ve all been around for a long time I think?[/quote]
Yes. Others but therefore recognise that others took the risk for you. With a new pandemic and a new vaccine someone, somewhere has to start. Thank previous generations for mass testing Tetanus, MMR, Polio, Whooping Cough, Diptheria, BCG, all diseases which killed and maimed 100's of thousands of people. Also thank the 10s of thousands worldwide that trialled it for you, many of them medics and scientists.

@Lweji

How could doctors know "if the vaccine is more or less likely to cause problems" if there is no data re immunocompromised people nor drug interaction data? That's where the issue is FOR ME, that's all I'm saying.

Have you talked to your GP about it? They will explain how useful they are.
Most likely, they will tell you exactly that you shouldn't take it.

Just don't go around telling people to do their own research when you mean to look at guidelines.

As you say, there is no data for immunocompromised people, so doing your own research won't uncover anything new anyway. Unless you mean to take the vaccine to produce your own data...?

I spoke to my GP, she said the same thing I'm saying (though this was a while ago so she may have more info by now) but stopped short of saying I shouldn't have it - that is my decision. She also said in America there was talk of not giving it to immunocompromised people full stop like they are doing with pregnant women because of the lack of data so I looked into that and saw there was a conversation about it (I have no idea if this has since changed).

I decided for my health situation I don't want to have the vaccine. I've made my mind up. Me talking about research is to those who are uncertain which is why I said "I suggest people do their own research and make the decision themselves."

People can look at guidelines as you call it and they can research other things such as mRNA vaccines, side effects and how people have coped with them - all sorts of things.

You can keep pulling apart my argument if it makes you feel better. I've said all I have to say.

But Effit, where do you do that research. Name a website or research you think is relevant.
You cant just tell people to "do their research" because most people wont know where to start or end up falling down the hole of antivax websites

This "do your own research" thing or "I've fine my own research"... What do people mean? I have access to journals through the university I lecture at, I am also trained in reading understanding and taking a critical lens to published papers (most experienced in my field obviously, but understanding how data is collected and represented does cut across most science papers). Even I wouldn't claim to able to reaaly "do my own research" on Covid vaccines I am scientificaly literate enough to make sense of some of the papers, but that's not research it's reading . Do people mean that they will Google things? Please please don't think you're getting anything other than opinion. When randomised double-blind trials tell us something is safe and effective it's the best non biased method we have for being as sure as we can that something is safe and effective. Just because you don't understand how vaccines are made and development of trial processes it doesn't mean that it isn't the best option... It's all about trust, usually we trust science and medical sciences in particular, we take all sorts of medicines and vaccines without ever even thinking how 'new' they are our how they were developed or came to market. In any given year NICE will approve a range of 'new' drugs that people up and down the land happily take unquestionably, drugs for dementia, Parkinson's, cancer etc... Meningitis vaccines, the HPV vaccine, none of those had 15 year interludes to check out 'long term' possible problems,? Why is this so different?

I decided for my health situation I don't want to have the vaccine. I've made my mind up. Me talking about research is to those who are uncertain which is why I said "I suggest people do their own research and make the decision themselves."

People can look at guidelines as you call it and they can research other things such as mRNA vaccines, side effects and how people have coped with them - all sorts of things.

You can keep pulling apart my argument if it makes you feel better. I've said all I have to say.

So, you were talking about different things, after all, in relation to looking at the guidelines and do your own research.

Research is what the trials were. Experts in regulatory agencies evaluate the results. They are trained to do it. Most people on MN are not!
I do research on a biomedical field and I really don't think I know more about these vaccines than the people who have recommended their use. Do you? Do you think anyone from the public will?

yes, I have noticed a lot of subtle anti-vax threads on here today, you would not believe the amount of people having the jab and still getting Covid

@barnacleofoldage

yes, I have noticed a lot of subtle anti-vax threads on here today, you would not believe the amount of people having the jab and still getting Covid

Well, it is possible, as protection is only really high after about 15 days post-dose 2. If you are in a high transmission risk category, you may well catch it before you're immune. And about 5 % will still catch it. You'll get a few people when large numbers are vaccinated.

@Zippy1510 and others.The ingredients used in the vaccine are not new- so we already know the long term effects of these (which is that with the exception of an extremely rare allergic reaction there are no long term effects) The only new bit is using the viral RNA in the vaccine

I am struggling to understand this. All of it really. And as there have already shown to be allergic reactions, why cant other things eventually show up to?
And someone elsewhere I think said, that the vaccines have been used on cancer patients, so everything is therefore A Ok. But someone else pointed out that that was for cancer and not for covid.

I dont get which bits are new and which are not. And I know that the pffizer ones differ from other ones. So there has to be new bits, and somewhat, partly at least untested. Doesnt there?

It’s really hard on threads like this to separate the facts from disinformation, well intended but wrong, and malicious.

In an ideal world I’d know which posters were actual doctors or scientists, and which were Google’s/you tubers but even if they stated it there’s no proof

Like others, I’m happy to have a vaccine and every bit of “real” evidence I’ve seen backs up the safety and research

How do we ensure the worried get reassured without being shouted down by the stupid/paranoid?

Not a vaccine expert, but although some of the recently approved vaccines use mRNA, they vary in how the mRNA is protected, i.e. the "box" it is in, to avoid being destroyed.

There had been previous research on mRNA vaccines but not human trials, as far as I know, at least not significant trials.

The advantage of these vaccines is that they can be produced more quickly and cheaply. Think that flu vaccines still require culture in eggs, for example.

There are some very good articles that explain what the different vaccines are and how they came about. I'd need to look them up.

Basically, the mRNA gets in the cells (it doesn't go to the nucleus, where most of our genetic material is), and it starts producing proteins, using the normal cell machinery. These proteins are shown outside the cells and activate specific antibody production. After a while the mRNA is destroyed, and that's it, no more of that mRNA and no more proteins. We keep the memory to produce antibodies when we meet the same proteins again (i.e. we get infected).

Watching with interest.

In an ideal world I’d know which posters were actual doctors or scientists, and which were Google’s/you tubers but even if they stated it there’s no proof

We don't. And we shouldn't rely on MN pps.

But we should rely on health and regulatory agencies. They are made up of experts who know what they are doing. They will also issue advice on those who should not take the vaccine or for whom there is lack of evidence of usefulness or side effects.

@lightand sorry didn't see your reply to be. No, I don't get my information from Facebook or mumsnet. I'm a nurse, trained in the Covid-19 vaccine.

Vaccines are organic matter and are totally broken down by the body / immune system. The immune system remembers how to combat the virus through T-cells which are created in response to the vaccine.

@Lweji

In an ideal world I’d know which posters were actual doctors or scientists, and which were Google’s/you tubers but even if they stated it there’s no proof

We don't. And we shouldn't rely on MN pps.

But we should rely on health and regulatory agencies. They are made up of experts who know what they are doing. They will also issue advice on those who should not take the vaccine or for whom there is lack of evidence of usefulness or side effects.

Absolutely, sorry I deadly mean rely on mn posts when you have no idea who people really are

I suppose I mean that for those worried, they can’t see the wood for the trees and identify who or what is informed or made up

Deadly = didnt

Lweji

I suggest people do their own research and make the decision themselves.

How, exactly?
Research on what? Should they pick 40 000 volunteers and inject the vaccine or a placebo and then see what the side effects are? Oh, wait...

Ffs, we've had reports of trials being halted and there is comprehensive data on the side effects from the ACTUAL TRIALS.
The vaccines have been through the scrutiny that all other vaccines get. Just with more people in high transmission settings.

Your own research is NOT asking your neighbours or watching youtube videos!

This. It always makes me shake my head when people think their own self selected range of articles on the internet is akin to "research" and is as good as strictly controlled clinical trials.

OP, if you know you're being silly, why don't you just have a word with yourself and give more credit to your powers of reasoning than you do to your feelings?

[quote lowbudgetnigella]This is my friends little boy, completely fit and healthy 7 year old before they got covid. Thankfully he is ok but with potential long standing effects. You just don't know how covid will affect you or your kids

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/boy-7-left-no-memory-23267495[/quote]
Little lam 😨❤️

Lamb even