Can someone talk me into the vaccine?

[Cassie6]

Embarrassed to even be writing this. I work for the bloody NHS for gods sake. My children have had all their vaccinations. I'm really not anti vax in the slightest and I'm surprised that I feel this way but I'm really scared to get the vaccine.

I'm scared because there's no knowledge of if anything could happen long term after having it, 15+ years down the line? Like there have been no long term studies? Can someone with a bit more knowledge explain to me if this is actually a thing?

I've seen it explained on here to people countless times that it hasn't been rushed there's just not been the waiting time there usually is with vaccine development and I understand that but I still feel uneasy about the long term effects.

In my mind my children and I are at such a low risk of being seriously ill that there's not much point having it when it could go wrong. However working in the NHS this is not the attitude and I'm so miserable living in lockdown after lockdown I know I need to do my bit.

So can someone convince me. Can someone explain logically what I'm getting wrong and unnecessarily anxious about?

There are a few things that are worth pointing out to help you make up your mind.

1. No vaccines have been shown to have long term effects. None. Medications sometimes but vaccines never.

2. Vaccines usually take a long time to produce not because they are being tested for long term effects but because there is a lack of funding and most importantly a lack of volunteers to allow for a statistically significant sample and conclusion. The reason these vaccines were produced so quickly hinged on funding and volunteers.

3. there are significant further impacts from Covid. Both long term health effects but also mental health and economic effects related to the restrictions. The sooner we reach a vaccination level allowing us to lift those restrictions the sooner we can start to recover.

4. Personally I had Covid over Christmas. Super mild. But I will still take the vaccination. I consider it my social responsibility to my fellow citizens, elderly, ECV, children who can't have a vaccine yet.

There are risks with vaccines, some rare but long term effects. These known but rare risks "show themselves" soon after the vaccine.

The most immediate is an allergic reaction, not common, can be treated.

The others are more rare.

Right now covid is not rare, dying (if you are low risk/young) is less rare but still very low chance. However if you were unlucky to get it (an presume because you are offered you are more at risk than average) then being ill, infecting others and other consequences covid eg fatigue for months or other effects are not rare.

I had mine 4 weeks ago, I was apprehensive but now feel so lucky (to the point of guilt) that I was able to when so many have not yet been able to get it.

Take it!

‘Asking someone with more intelligence than you’ - this is bullying. Since when does aggression lead to a better universal outcome?

I’ve missed an obvious point:

FOR THE VACCINE:
—————————

1. Risk of dying from COVID (Risk pertains to the individual)
2. Risk of spreading COVID to vulnerable person - huge
3. Risk of long COVID damage (not insignificant; it’s not known as the gift that keeps giving for nothing! Potentially huge).
4. What other large scale options do we have?!

AGAINST:

1. Unknown unknowns - eg the Pandremix vaccine caused narcolepsy up to 1 yr later
2. Poor history of disclosure of concerns eg) GSK & narcolepsy; same orgs involved in drugs trials where bias is enormous. See - Pharmaceutical co’s getting sued for $ all kinds of dodgy & dangerous shenanigans.
3. Medical govt advisers allowed to mandate vaccines that they also happen to own £600k of shares in vaccine provider...

So for me it’s risk versus trust...

[quote lightand]@InterfectoremVulpes
And the covid 19 vaccine is a tweaked version of an existing vaccine too
Define "tweaked" in the covid19 vaccine please.

For instance, the Pffizer one uses a new method of delivery, which many people are not comfortable with yet, as it is new. Brand new as far as I know.[/quote]
Did Oxford not adapt the vaccine that was being developed for MERS?

I'm sure I read a whole article explaining how they developed a whole "base" vaccine years ago where it was possible to just add the "code" of a virus to make it (theoretically) work against that virus and in the case of Covid it worked.

If you are in doubt opt for the Oxford. They used a tried and well tested well proven method that is used routinely to create vaccines.

Yes the base of the vaccine is a chimpanzee corona virus, one that is harmless to humans, the bit of Covid-19 they spliced in was the protein spikes that lock it onto our cells.

The reason it was developed so fast was the base was already developed and waiting so cut out years of work. It was amazing timing, poised ready for a global pandemic. This combined with rushing funding through so test trials could be underway quickly. Everything has been authorised and monitored properly, it's just gone to the front of the queue every time so no waiting. Also they have had a big pool globally of easy test recipients so recruiting for trials has been easier.

It's not unsafe due to its technology or its speed.

If you have accepted any other vaccine then why not this?

Law of probabilities, my interpretation
If there is the slightest possibility that there may be adverse effects in about 15 years, then I'm gonna do my bloody utmost to actually be around to have a good effing moan about it.
Which is why I had the vaccination on Weds - no side effects this far.

1) No vaccines have been shown to have long term effects. None. Medications sometimes but vaccines never

Might want to look into Pandemrix..

Also I think the 'long-term affects' queries are quite unfounded, the long term affect is the same as any other vaccine you've had- immunity. Your T-cells and memory cells will be able to recognise the antigens and provide a quick and effective immune response before the virus can really take hold. This is the same as the MMR and all the other vaccines you've (hopefully) already had. The rest of your components are broken down and excreted by your body once the mRNA has done its job- just like in other vaccines. I cannot stress how meticulously and fastidiously it has been analysed, examined and tested. If you have an issue with trusting the organisation or those involved (You shouldn't- I like to think my DIL would have warned us if it was microchipped, and certainly wouldn't be getting it herself)- then trust the evidence. Read the reports, or have a friend with knowledge in the field read them for you. As trial reports go, its a fantastic one from a pharmaceutical perspective, huge sample size (like 100X the usual sample), high rates of efficacy and very few cases of adverse affects, all of which are identified and being mitigated against.

purplebaglady
The reason it was developed so fast was the base was already developed and waiting so cut out years of work. It was amazing timing, poised ready for a global pandemic

Thats exactly what I thought too. Its also what Oxford themselves has said 🤷‍♀️

I had my vaccine this week as an NHS employee. My colleagues seem to be in two boats, 1, get it ASAP, two unsure and hold off for a bit. I was unsure but this past two weeks the number of covid patients in our hospital has rocketed. Before then, it was trying to be a green site. I just visit the wards for my work and seeing a patient who had had an allergic reaction to a covid treatment and had bruising all over his face and shoulders really did it for me that I wanted it asap. I also listened to a q and a run by our hospital trust. One thing that came out is that, no other vaccinations have long term negative effects.

@nether

The 'base' virus is an attenuated chimpanzee adenovirus, which has been used in one vet vaccine for a few years now

Great! We are in 'vet' territory now!

I don't mean to be arsey, what I'm saying is that people should read before dismissing other's concerns.

These vaccines may be a good solution for many, but some will perceive risk differently (at least for now) based on their own circumstances

I genuinely was posting from a place of wanting to feel comfortable with it, not from faux eyed innocence or whatever. Looking into things online has only made me more anxious, and I've been a bit embarrassed to mention in work that I'm not keen to get the vaccine when everyone else has jumped at the opportunity. I'm not patient facing or clinical so I'm not surrounded by doctors. Either way, this thread has clearly derailed so I will ask mumsnet to remove it.

Just to say though, not just based off this thread but off many both on here and other sites - for every person who like me who is a bit hesitant, who asks and gets the argumentative responses or judgement, they won't stop doubting, they'll just stop asking. The opportunity will stop being there for these people to be talked into it, to feel comfortable, to have their questions answered. It's all you see online, statements like "why is it everyone who doesn't want the Covid vaccine starts their sentence saying I'm not anti vax then going on to be anti vax". Everybody knows the narrative attached with being anti vax, that extremist attitude and negative connotations and nobody wants people to think that of them. Whilst pushing this narrative on to people who are hesitant they will just not talk about it publicly.

Perhaps a bold statement but if the Covid vaccine fails due to insufficient uptake I think it's not due to the vaccine hesitant, it'll be more in the hands of the judgemental attitudes of those who aren't worried and made those who are feel like the have no choice but to keep quiet or get a tirade of anti vax abuse.

@trulydelicious

It was in feb/ March last year I had it and I haven’t had it officially confirmed because my symptoms wasn’t what officials were saying about it at the time.
I had a bit of a cough, horrid burning skin on my stomach, 3 days of dehydration and constantly shivering. It felt my spine was being ripped out, loss of taste and smell, I didn’t eat for 8 days and the pain in my stomach was intense. I was so weak it took me about a month to get up and moving.

It was only later when other people were saying about them same symptoms I realised I’d had it.a nurse friend of mine said it was Covid but I’ve not had the antibody test.

It's not a chimpanzee corona virus, it's a chimpanzee adenovirus - completely different family of viruses (common cold virus).

Don't give people even more partial information to leap to conclusions about.

Fair enough @Chickychickydodah

Perhaps if you are high risk for whatever reason best to be vaccinated. Otherwise, maybe you can have an antibody test?

@Cassie6

this thread has clearly derailed so I will ask mumsnet to remove it

In what way has it derailed?

Systematically removing these threads will make people more suspicious and will push those who are in doubt to Facebook/trolls for answers

pinbinpin
Thank you for this info, I had no idea that the flu shot is new every year!
I have had the flu vaccine every winter for the past 14 years, and, never had a reaction. Until this time. I felt great for the first 12 hours, then ill for a day. I wonder if this could be why?

@Cassie6

they won't stop doubting, they'll just stop asking

^This

[quote trulydelicious]@NonagonInfinityOpensTheDoor

long-term data on other mRNA vaccines

Which 'other' mRNA vaccines? Can you name them?[/quote]
Rabies, Influenza, Cytomegalovirus, and Zika. They’re not approved vaccines but the clinical trails and studies are very real. mRNA studies have been decades in the making.

No one, not even scientists can tell you anything is 100% safe that is why there are side effects noted on even basic medication like paracetamol but if you chose to look at the scientific research and decades of dedication that has gone into mRNA research and chose to dismiss it because it’s not “100%” safe then you need to reevaluate everything you do in life.

I am now disengaging from this thread. But I implore people to look at actual research for this, not infographics from unknown sources or copypasta on social media.

I have concerns but will have the jab I think. I have been invited for a flu jab for the first time ever and and worried about having that closely followed by a covid jab (if I get in on the current schedule) as that sounds like a bit of a cocktail.

Just to say though, not just based off this thread but off many both on here and other sites - for every person who like me who is a bit hesitant, who asks and gets the argumentative responses or judgement, they won't stop doubting, they'll just stop asking.

But why do you come to Social Media to ask whether you should have the vaccine? Does your decision depend on equally ill-informed people agreeing with each other?

Surely there are better options for you than asking randoms on the internet?

@Cassie6

I genuinely was posting from a place of wanting to feel comfortable with it, not from faux eyed innocence or whatever. Looking into things online has only made me more anxious, and I've been a bit embarrassed to mention in work that I'm not keen to get the vaccine when everyone else has jumped at the opportunity. I'm not patient facing or clinical so I'm not surrounded by doctors. Either way, this thread has clearly derailed so I will ask mumsnet to remove it.

Just to say though, not just based off this thread but off many both on here and other sites - for every person who like me who is a bit hesitant, who asks and gets the argumentative responses or judgement, they won't stop doubting, they'll just stop asking. The opportunity will stop being there for these people to be talked into it, to feel comfortable, to have their questions answered. It's all you see online, statements like "why is it everyone who doesn't want the Covid vaccine starts their sentence saying I'm not anti vax then going on to be anti vax". Everybody knows the narrative attached with being anti vax, that extremist attitude and negative connotations and nobody wants people to think that of them. Whilst pushing this narrative on to people who are hesitant they will just not talk about it publicly.

Perhaps a bold statement but if the Covid vaccine fails due to insufficient uptake I think it's not due to the vaccine hesitant, it'll be more in the hands of the judgemental attitudes of those who aren't worried and made those who are feel like the have no choice but to keep quiet or get a tirade of anti vax abuse.

Surely if you have a health background, you wouldn’t be persuaded to change your mind on a health issue because someone expresses an opposing opinion in a way you don’t like?

Surely it’s about the evidence presented to you?

I work with older adults (geriatrics) and I see a very large number of people with long term issues from vaccine preventable diseases (post polio disease, issues from measles and rubella, diphtheria related hypoxic brain injury etc) and lots of my patients have lost family members to the same. All because vaccines were not available for those things when my patients were young. I see a very tiny amount of people with vaccine injury, about 1 10th of the number of those with issues from vaccine preventable injury.

During the pandemic I have been moved to work in ICU and have seen so many people die from COVID. Young, old and everything in between. I have friends and patients with long -covid. I don't want to get it.

Long term issues with vaccines are very, astonishingly rare. Most are immediate/ very short term presenting or medium term (12ish months). We have passed both of those markers in terms of testing for the vaccine - these vaccines are based on previous research in to coronavirus vaccines so side effects experienced were expected and minimal (feeling unwell for 2 days being the most common). Almost all vaccines have a very small number of people allergic to them, almost always people who are severally allergic to other things.

Yes, I've declined the flu jab for the same reason. It seems a bit close to the vaccine, which I will hopefully get in several weeks time. Otherwise I'd have taken the flu jab.