Surprised people aren't more angry over the state of the NHS

[IHTC]

I see loads of comments and have heard people vent about how frustrated they are with rule benders/breakers. I rarely see anyone show anger at the state of the NHS.

It's completely unfit for purpose. The population expands year on year yet our healthcare system hasn't been developed in line with population growth. The public are constantly being asked to make sacrifices because of the government's incompetence and rather than question and hold the government to account, it's like we've been manipulated into turning against one another. Find it all so strange.

I think you have a point OP

Timing

We can't do anything about the state of the NHS in time to avert the slew of cases that has led to Alert 5

We can stop bending the rules (whether law or guidance) because that's about the only think that makes a difference right now.

I am angry about it. I don't think much could have prevented it being overwhelmed by a pandemic but staff have been voicing for years that its on its knees. It's disgusting - it sounds like such a stressful environment to work in and we should be taking care of our hop's and making sure their job isn't harder than it needs to be. Patient care definitely suffers for the NHS being so run down.

In normal times I would agree (not angry with NHS, angry with government and ultimately public who don't fund it properly) I don't think any health care system in the world wouldn't be stretched to breaking point with what we've got coming over the next few weeks though. Plus, people sometimes compare the NHS unfavorably to other healthcare systems in Europe, but THEY ARE FUNDED BETTER, that's the main difference. People also talk about having an insurance based system ignoring the fact the world add a whole extra layer of bureaucracy and cost more.
Best meme I've seen about the NHS -
Tory voters, next election,
Stay Home,
Protect the NHS,
Save Lives

I'm livid, but what can we do? Successive governments have reduced the number of beds over the last 15 years by 75,000; there were over 100,000 vacancies in the NHS going into the pandemic, reading Adam Kay's book was shocking and that was written before the 2008 austerity measures started. It's awful, but what on earth can people do about it? Even now Starmer is talking about limiting debt so even if Labour were to get in there's no guarantee they'll do much about it. I live on a Tory seven-seat so really don't have any influence on elections even if there was an alternative party that were going to improve things.

Maybe we need an NHS party to drum up support like UKIP did for Brexit?

They voted in shedloads for Boris just a year ago.

They VOTED for worse healthcare and schools.

It's the years of austerity by the current government that have caused the current state of the NHS. It was cut to the bone and struggling even before the pandemic.

I was just thinking today that the same applies to the police force. Again, cuts by current government have so depleted forces that they do not have the manpower to properly police the lockdown laws that have been implemented.

@peggyslantern I totally agree. Especially having heard about other countries struggling despite having a healthcare system much better than our own (in terms of capacity/resource etc). However, we could have faired so much better during this whole pandemic had the NHS been appropriately developed over all those years. It's so frustrating.

It's awful, but what on earth can people do about it?

Not vote Tory?

The NHS has been broken for decades. I watched my father die a miserable and lingering death in hospital in the winter of 1999 when again, the NHS was in crisis as it seems to be year after year.

The system doesn't work. There are so many far superior systems around the world - Australia, France, Austria. Yet people refuse to consider major reform and a fundamental shake up. Everyone seems adamant that the choice is between our system or that in America - clearly no-one wants a US system. But everyone seems blinded by the 'NHS Heroes' - yet the mismanagement, waste and failures are endemic.

It was a great idea back when it began, post-WW2. But things have changed and even if more investment is made, the system needs radical overhaul.

I'm lucky - I've got private healthcare for me and my family and this is something I shall prioritise and pay for - I'd rather drive a crappy car and pay for healthcare than rely on the NHS.

I appreciate all health systems the world over are struggling. But I pray that after we've passed this crisis, someone has the balls to advocate for a massive reform of healthcare in this country. They'd get my vote.

OP - absolutely agree with you. So depressing to have worked in public services during the Tory years - deliberate under funding under the guise of austerity. Health, education, local government - all suffering. Clever Tories, getting people turning on each other, rather than people actually blaming them for their policies.

I agree OP. The NHS can't cope with the ageing population. I would favour a system where there is an element of charging at point of care (like many European countries).

@wonderstuff exactly this. Like picking the best of a bad bunch. I would love to see a fresh faced party in power and stop the swing between Labour/Conservative who are both as bad as each other!

It's the years of austerity by the current government that have caused the current state of the NHS
I think its deliberate so they can then persuade the electorate that a publicly funded model doesn't work. There's loads of money to be made by changing it, billions.

This is why I never joined in the clapping for the NHS. I felt like it was an empty gesture and I bet those clapping the loudest were Tory voters.

I'd totally support a weekly clap/ show of support for increased NHS funding, pay rises and better working conditions for NHS staff. Maybe we can get something started via Mumsnet?

It’s been a mess for a long time. It is far bigger than it was ever designed for. When the concept of and the NHS was created we had relatively basic cradle to grave health care, a much smaller less diverse population and far less science and technology. Now look at 2021 (pandemic aside) we have developed abilities within medicine and science that the NHS founding fathers could only dream of, however, this is all incredibly expensive. The population has grown and diversified. Also people expect more, for example, they can have an extremely complex surgery but also expect it to be pain free and have a fully supported recovery. Self care is also pretty poor in this country in terms of lifestyle choices and the way we use and access healthcare. There is also a lot of waste e.g. some people will expect a prescription from their GP for meds they could buy over the counter and have got with consulting a pharmacist rather than using a GP appointment. Add in layers and layers of management and paperwork to make even small changes it’s a mine field. Also look at what it funds, many services while vital are far beyond the basics of healthcare. If the funding it received was actually just to provide the basic of good quality health care it would be fine but it isn’t- the expectations are much higher. I say this as an NHS nurse who has been on the verge of leaving the NHS several times but ultimately I love my job and my patients so stay. Staff morale is on its bum and it runs largely on good will. The problem is staff have given more for less for years and now it is expected and the goodwill is on the verge of running out.

@DappledOliveGroves

The NHS has been broken for decades. I watched my father die a miserable and lingering death in hospital in the winter of 1999 when again, the NHS was in crisis as it seems to be year after year.

The system doesn't work. There are so many far superior systems around the world - Australia, France, Austria. Yet people refuse to consider major reform and a fundamental shake up. Everyone seems adamant that the choice is between our system or that in America - clearly no-one wants a US system. But everyone seems blinded by the 'NHS Heroes' - yet the mismanagement, waste and failures are endemic.

It was a great idea back when it began, post-WW2. But things have changed and even if more investment is made, the system needs radical overhaul.

I'm lucky - I've got private healthcare for me and my family and this is something I shall prioritise and pay for - I'd rather drive a crappy car and pay for healthcare than rely on the NHS.

I appreciate all health systems the world over are struggling. But I pray that after we've passed this crisis, someone has the balls to advocate for a massive reform of healthcare in this country. They'd get my vote.

This is an excellent post.

There is appalling waste and mismanagement within the NHS. This needs fixing and until it is, more money thrown at the existing system is just wasteful.

Totally agree op however my opinion is that labour will do more for the nhs but I know I will get many saying they won't.

This is unfortunately what 10 years of a Tory government has done to public services...it's not just the nhs either it's all areas.

Completely agree OP

@Buttercupcup

It’s been a mess for a long time. It is far bigger than it was ever designed for. When the concept of and the NHS was created we had relatively basic cradle to grave health care, a much smaller less diverse population and far less science and technology. Now look at 2021 (pandemic aside) we have developed abilities within medicine and science that the NHS founding fathers could only dream of, however, this is all incredibly expensive. The population has grown and diversified. Also people expect more, for example, they can have an extremely complex surgery but also expect it to be pain free and have a fully supported recovery. Self care is also pretty poor in this country in terms of lifestyle choices and the way we use and access healthcare. There is also a lot of waste e.g. some people will expect a prescription from their GP for meds they could buy over the counter and have got with consulting a pharmacist rather than using a GP appointment. Add in layers and layers of management and paperwork to make even small changes it’s a mine field. Also look at what it funds, many services while vital are far beyond the basics of healthcare. If the funding it received was actually just to provide the basic of good quality health care it would be fine but it isn’t- the expectations are much higher. I say this as an NHS nurse who has been on the verge of leaving the NHS several times but ultimately I love my job and my patients so stay. Staff morale is on its bum and it runs largely on good will. The problem is staff have given more for less for years and now it is expected and the goodwill is on the verge of running out.

Another excellent post!

We're in the middle of a global pandemic. Complaining now doesn't help anyone. The NHS and the politicians have their hands full. People are frightened and stressed and don't need the negativity.

Once things are a bit more under control, there will be a need to balance budgets, especially with the economy in recovery. Just now is not the time.

The next election will be very interesting!

We have also had the ticking timebomb of a very unhealthy population which was already putting unnecessary strain on the NHS, well before Covid. The hypocrisy of people who harp on about putting on a mask to "save the NHS" while being morbidly obese, quite honestly, make me mad.

The current hospitalised patients would have caught Covid 2 weeks ago - Christmas.

So yes, I am angry the government allowed/initially encouraged people to mix households indoors at Christmas.

That is the cause of current problems in the NHS (as also identified by PHE), not people taking countryside walks.

The U.K. needs to be able to have a frank, unsentimental conversation about the role of the NHS. The country has changed enormously since it was established in terms of population size and demographics, and there have been huge advancements in medicine. If we expect the NHS to provide high quality, free at the point of access, modern medical care from birth to death for the entire population then (a) the structure and management model needs a complete overhaul and (b) we all need to pay a lot more tax. If that isn’t viable, then we need to move to a new national model for healthcare. As it stands, the NHS simply isn’t fit for purpose.

@HappyFlamingo

I agree OP. The NHS can't cope with the ageing population. I would favour a system where there is an element of charging at point of care (like many European countries).

I don't think many EU countries have charging at point of care - that means paying directly whilst in hospital. Those that have systems that involve contributions from patients have 'mutual' insurance schemes, where the insurer pays and the patient may have a small excess. These 'mutual' insurance schemes are nowhere near as expensive as private medical insurance in the UK, and a fraction of the system in the US that the UK government are slyly trying to sell the NHS out to.