Surprised people aren't more angry over the state of the NHS

[IHTC]

I see loads of comments and have heard people vent about how frustrated they are with rule benders/breakers. I rarely see anyone show anger at the state of the NHS.

It's completely unfit for purpose. The population expands year on year yet our healthcare system hasn't been developed in line with population growth. The public are constantly being asked to make sacrifices because of the government's incompetence and rather than question and hold the government to account, it's like we've been manipulated into turning against one another. Find it all so strange.

Now isn't the time to be angry with the NHS, but it's issues go way beyond funding. The current NHS system is, at a conservative estimate, expected to require a 4% annual increase in funding in perpetuity an amount that is larger than any realistic growth prediction for any developed country. If such funding increases were granted the country would be spending more on the NHS than the entirety of GDP within many of our lifetimes a situation which is clearly impossible for many reasons.

Some excellent posts on here. The state of the NHS is not down to underfunding by the current government. It has been in crisis for many years under both Tory and Labour governments. Throwing more money at it is not the issue. There is appalling waste and mismanagement of resources in the NHS. We expect it to be able to do things it was never designed to do. I truly don't know what the answer is but it needs a radical rethink.

I agree that the NHS has been underfunded. Lots of people thought that private medical insurance would help them and obviously it doesn’t in a pandemic as it’s acute care that is needed.
I disagree that people voted for Boris. All the Tory voters I know voted for ABC- anything but Corbyn.

@MadCatLady71 absolutely you have said what I was trying to far more eloquently!

Such an important thread. I said on another that I couldn't believe that people weren't drilling down further into WHY our NHS won't cope.

Also, the PP who made a point about the NHS being totally inappropriate for our society now compared to what it was designed for now is so right. Give me a system where we pay in any day.

The state of the NHS is not down to underfunding by the current government.

The problem is not solely one of funding, but to deny that the current government has not played a part in running it down is disingenuous, put politely.

I am angry about it OP, what makes you think people aren't? Where is the platform for venting our anger?

And yes to not voting Conservative.

@Orf1abc

The state of the NHS is not down to underfunding by the current government.

The problem is not solely one of funding, but to deny that the current government has not played a part in running it down is disingenuous, put politely.

The NHS is reported to be in crisis every winter every year, pretty much in living memory. Even during Tony Blair's government. Why is this?

Yes, I'm really annoyed that governments have successively under funded and mishandled the NHS for years, cut and cut services and now that the results are more evident than ever before, are standing there exhorting the public to save it.
I think they've got a bloody nerve to be honest, when they've done this. HCPs are in short supply because they're treated appallingly, and start their career with thousands of university debt, with salaries that barely qualify to pay that back. They've traded on the vocation side of it all, that you shouldn't do that kind of job for the money. Quite right, you shouldn't, but that's not an excuse to not pay people properly for what they do.
Removing the bursary for nursing has had an impact on numbers, I would have been in an ideal position personally to train from about 2 years ago, but simply could not afford to, how many people are the same?
So yes, I'm really angry that we're now having to lose things like jobs, livelihoods and education because of that (not that education is in a much better state) so as to lose less lives to a pandemic. Not much of a choice is it?
But I do think we have to work with what we've got right now, regardless of how we got there (for the time being) I get equally frustrated with people who use the way the NHS has been run into the ground as a reason not to do what is needed to slow down the virus enough for healthcare to be able to cope. That's going to add to the situation rather than help, and quite honestly I think it's an excuse to not do it.
We've got a wonderful system in principle, people like me get the healthcare we need to enable us to work and contribute still, and I'd not begrudge a little extra tax off my wages (and to be clear I'm a min wage worker so barely make ends meet to start with) to give it a much needed boost, than have to start paying at a&e or the gp. I'd have to save up to afford basic healthcare and some things would simply be beyond my reach. I already have to delay a prescription depending on how close to pay day it is if I need one, and coincide my dental care with overtime! That's manageable, having a 4 figure bill if I slip and fall on the ice tomorrow isn't.
I think the government have done a good job of promoting the people who've not stuck to the rules and contributed to this, and I do think they're wrong, but it's easy to hold a neighbour or colleague to account when you can see it right there, I do want to know who's going to hold this, and previous governments to account for the mess we went into this with.
The boat is sinking, the government sailed straight at the iceberg, and now society is widening the hole.

@idblowjonsnow just generally really. Either when I'm having conversations in real life or browsing through comments and threads like these online. I rarely see or hear it discussed. I guess I should have asked why aren't people talking about it instead as clearly, there are plenty of people feeling the same as me.

I hope after this pandemic passes a grown-up discussion can be had about the NHS.

I think that many people are becoming aware that if you don't have health, well life is hard.

But to lay into the NHS feels like you are laying into the amazing doctors and nurses whom in my experience are the most caring people I have ever had the pleasure to meet. They don't care how much tax you pay you are a patient, a fellow human in need, they want to do everything they can for you as a patient. And governments know this, they are the caring human barrier that helps the government fudge funding and yes maybe a reorganization.

Let's not go down the how much you can pay depends on your care route.

Once the Covid-19 dust settles, we should demand the government listen to the medics. We can all contribute to a better healthcare future.

The system doesn't work. There are so many far superior systems around the world - Australia, France, Austria. Yet people refuse to consider major reform and a fundamental shake up. Everyone seems adamant that the choice is between our system or that in America - clearly no-one wants a US system. But everyone seems blinded by the 'NHS Heroes' - yet the mismanagement, waste and failures are endemic.

Exactly this.

lazeeboy In some European countries you do pay at point of care (with exceptions for those who cannot afford it), eg I believe in France there is a charge for a GP appointment.

We all need to pay more taxes to fund it. I wouldn't be against some treatments not being free. My friend lives in Denmark snd has to pay for fertility treatments for example.

Too right op.

Agree OP. The NHS isn’t the envy of the world, whatever we’ve been told. It works miracles considering how badly it’s been run down, but it needs a major cash injection and some proper refitting to make it a 21st century service. We could do a lot worse than look to the various European models, like France, Germany and Spain.

Yes you pay to see a gp in France. Wish that would be introduced here.

we all need to pay a lot more tax. If that isn’t viable, then we need to move to a new national model for healthcare.

What do you mean by that? Cut services or pioneering treatments and leave people Ill or in pain? Or more to an insurance model? If we want a top quality health service we have to be prepared to put our hand in our pocket and pay for it, tax seems the cheapest way to do that, insurance would add massive bureaucracy.

I have private health insurance (through work, I don't and wouldn't pay for it, I'd rather pay extra tax so that everyone could have better treatment). Anyway, I've only used it once for a routine operation for my daughter, the form filling, phone calls, and extra appointments were absolutely fucking ridiculous. Also, we had BETTER treatment when we went down the NHS route and it was easier. Don't believe it when people tell you private is better, insurance companies don't give a shit about you, they exist to make a profit for their shareholders, nothing else.

Unfortunately i think there is going to be a lot of resentment towards the NHS after this. Ive seen plenty of NHS workers on Twitter berating the public for not following the rules but are silent about celebrities, politicians and those in the media who break them.

@HappyFlamingo

lazeeboy In some European countries you do pay at point of care (with exceptions for those who cannot afford it), eg I believe in France there is a charge for a GP appointment.

Yes, just for a GP appointment, not (tens of) thousands of pounds equivalent for hospital treatment.

And I don't think the GP cost is the full cost, it is a contribution.
Here in the UK a private GP appointment is up to £100.

One extra problem is that shortage of beds mean shortage of staff and at the moment thousands of nhs staff are off with covid or symptoms

These are extraordinary times .

A 25% increase over normal admissions for this time of the year plus staff off ill .

It does not take long to work out .

I'm very angry about the gross and wholly intentional underfunding of the NHS for the last decade and more.

We are expecting awful awful excess hours, health risks and and commitment from our Drs, nurses and HCPs to fill the gap that could have been filled with adequate funding.

Germany has not handled the pandemic perfectly by any stretch but it does have properly funded and resourced healthcare for all. They have the highest number of intensive care beds per capita in Europe and one of the highest in the world.

I despair that we are contemplating doing the likes of closing take away coffee shops or stopping outside exercise with 1 person - it's so tokenistic given the massive issue at hand. The foundation of that issue is the underfunded NHS.
You do know the Tories are likely to conclude that post-pandemic we can no longer afford to keep it free. But people want low taxes and that's the bedrock of Tory success. Every Tory voter should own what is happening to our health service.

@LacyEdge

It they have not coped with the virus any better than us .

lazeeboy Yes agreed. I would support that kind of partially funded system.

I agree- it needs a massive overhaul. There is so much mis-management and inefficiency- throwing more money at it is not the solution.