Surprised people aren't more angry over the state of the NHS

[IHTC]

I see loads of comments and have heard people vent about how frustrated they are with rule benders/breakers. I rarely see anyone show anger at the state of the NHS.

It's completely unfit for purpose. The population expands year on year yet our healthcare system hasn't been developed in line with population growth. The public are constantly being asked to make sacrifices because of the government's incompetence and rather than question and hold the government to account, it's like we've been manipulated into turning against one another. Find it all so strange.

@herecomesthesun. Dearie me, you forgot to mention workplace bullying culture, one of the main reasons for poor staff take up and/or retention. How come they cant cope with circa 32,000 covid patients nationally, with most non-urgent stuff being cancelled with 1.2 million staff and a budget of £1.4 billion?

If you have ever dealt with procurement in the NHS you wouldn’t be saying that

I have, it's insanely wasteful and unorganised!

The system doesn't work. There are so many far superior systems around the world - Australia, France, Austria. Yet people refuse to consider major reform and a fundamental shake up. Everyone seems adamant that the choice is between our system or that in America - clearly no-one wants a US system. But everyone seems blinded by the 'NHS Heroes' - yet the mismanagement, waste and failures are endemic.

But the choice is between this system or the US system. No amount of pointing at France will stop this government moving towards the US system.

To have a 'world beating NHS' we need to pay more, ALL OF US.

We need to take responsibility for our health.

We need to accept that as our population ages, so will the cost of the NHS.

IMO

@torquewench

The NHS employs 1,200,000 people and eats £1.4 billion a year. Why cant t cope?

How much do you think would be the right amount to spend on healthcare for 66 million people?

You clearly think this is too much, but this is much less in terms of both GDP and per capita than France, Germany, Switzerland and the USA to list but a few.

I'm seething.
Hiw about we don't vote these fuckers in again folks???
🙏

@MrsMiaWallis

If you have ever dealt with procurement in the NHS you wouldn’t be saying that

I have, it's insanely wasteful and unorganised!

And appallingly underfunded for the work it’s expected to do. You really can’t get something for nothing.

@torquewench

The NHS employs 1,200,000 people and eats £1.4 billion a year. Why cant t cope?

Serco got £12 billion for their shit Test & (Vanish Without) Trace operation. Imagine if they’d let councils do the legwork and given the remainder of the cash to the NHS.

When I returned to work (in the NHS) last summer after having a year off, I was expecting more than usual abuse from patients about waiting times (or even longer waiting times due to a pandemic) however I was pleasantly surprised to recieve the complete opposite! It seems the general population are more understanding and tolerant of the state of the NHS. I've never had so much kindness towards me in my 10 year NHS career. The not saying that's the right approach, it's just an observation I made.

@dingledongle

To have a 'world beating NHS' we need to pay more, ALL OF US.

We need to take responsibility for our health.

We need to accept that as our population ages, so will the cost of the NHS.

IMO

I agree. Higher taxes

No big changes - big upheavals have happened every 5-8 years in the nhs. There are costs to re-organization- like the one where they disbanded PCTs and had CCGs...

Slow, thoughtful increases in front line staff would be welcome.

Best thing they could do is stop further PFI - which is a short term wasteful strategy where you get what you want (eg new hospital) now but pay huge amount of premium in the next few years.

I would support part funded. It’s not fit for purpose. So much waste and mismanagement. I hope we can have a grown up conversation about it after this is all over but somehow I think it would be a brave government who starts to introduce some charges. I am a higher rate tax payer. Why should I get my prescriptions free because I am 60?

My parents well over 80 get everything free of charge despite having the ability to pay for it. The obesity issue in this country is shameful. I wonder if it’s because some peop,e don’t take any personal responsibility for their own health and well being.

And figure out a sustainable social care system for elderly people.

@Iceskatingfan

Well said. I just wish people would listen to people like you instead of the mismanagement, wasteful etc Tory lie they all seem to swallow.

Nope, I absolutely dont think it's "too much". But there's also absolutely no denying the fact that its an incomprehensibly large sum. What I do think though is that it hasnt kept pace with the population growth over the last 40 odd years. Hundreds of thousands of new houses being built, how many extra hospitals in the same period? Theres a new hospital being constructed in my city. 3 years behind schedule with lower capacity than the existing one it's replacing, not extending.

The NHS in its current format isn’t fit for purpose. It may be free at point of use but this is what has happened to a few members of my family over the last few years:
One family member went in for very minor surgery. She was dropped by staff moving her from her bed to a chair. A couple of days stay turned into 16 weeks and she is no longer mobile.
Another relative, went in after a fall and was discharged with C-diff, MRSA and emaciated.
DM told repeatedly that her symptoms were a sign of old age when in fact her heart was failing.
DF prescribed the wrong medication by a locum GP which nearly killed him.
DS completely fobbed off over his mental health issues which resulted in an attempt on his own life.
Not sure I want to pay more into such a service.

Haha - torque wench - yes the smaller bed numbers in new hospitals is ridiculous (they did that at a another hospital which got built some years ago). An overly optimistic ability to do the magic of treating patients in the community... (when we have low bed numbers already compared to many European countries), plus a growing population.

Read 'This is Going to Hurt' by Adam Kay, take what he says and amplify it by 100x as we are now in 2021. People expect more, want more. Not so long ago it was acceptable to live a good life until a peaceful death at 75, now modern medicine appears to be striving to keep people alive into their 100's. People in this country take little ownership of their own health, I've had people refuse to discharge until their paracetamol arrives from the pharmacy department..seriously. We have huge advancements in the treatment we can offer people, the tests that we can carry out and the massive range of services the NHS can deliver not only in hospital but in the community too. It all comes at a price. Don't be angry at the NHS, be angry at the government in charge of it - putting enormous pressure on front line staff to get patients in an out in a matter of hours because they're queuing up outside the doors. You see the papers reporting '7 hours waits in A&E for the elderly' the way things are right now they are lucky to be in the department on a trolley atall..

Essentially the NHS is not compatible with the modern world and the way medicine has developed and adapted.

But the choice is between this system or the US system

Why do people say this? Both the UK and the USA represent extremes, neither of which work particularly well (although contrary to popular UK belief the US does have a free emergency system which unlike the UK doesn't require access to public funds). There are many many other models in existence which work better than each of these.

And given the frankly ridiculously almost holy status that the NHS has in public consciousness - it even featured in our bloody Olympics opening ceremony ffs, which was cringe in the extreme - there's no way that any political party would suddenly flip over to a full co-pay system.

Saying that we would and that this is the only alternative is part of what's stopping us from having a clear headed rational discussion about how to construct a health system that meets our needs.

Agree op the nhs is unfit for purpose. But that’s because the system needs and overhaul. So much money is wasted. Any government could throw money at it and it still wouldn’t be enough ....

I forget who it was but someone said that the NHS is a religion. And they were right. To even dare to question the model is electoral suicide so governments either leave well alone or reform by stealth.

But the choice is between this system or the US system

Why do people say this?

Because the transition to the US model will require no discussion, no action at all other than a nudge towards more private health cover. See dentistry’s journey over the past 30 years.

To go down an alternative model would take a grown up conversation about costs and payments, which would show the NHS as being relatively cheap and terribly underfunded, and this government will never allow that.

I don’t think the nhs is unfit for purpose. I think there are certain parts that are v wasteful - like PFI. They are popular because they give people a ‘result’ (like a new hospital) quick, but make stuff worse in the long term. Why not identify and ameliorate the bad bits, before doing a huge scale restructuring which risks making stuff worse?

If you have insurance system, you will likely have to have big admin depts which deal with all processing of payments, rebates etc. Which we do not have to do now.

Just imagine if the 12 billion spent on track and trace had been spent on the NHS. Other countries set up more effective tracking systems at a tiny fraction of this cost.

To have a 'world beating NHS' we need to pay more, ALL OF US.

Over six million jobs pay less than £9.30
ph. I agree that the NHS requires more funding but you're not going to raise it through taxation.