Tighter restrictions? What else can be "tighter"??

[R2221]

Schools closed, work places closed, nailbars, hairdressers, clothes shops, closed. My high street is dead and a couple of big shops are permanently closing down. We've been totally indoors, going out only to get grocery and exercise.

Oh, gyms are closed, no play dates, birthdays, dinners or even coffee with friends. WHAT ELSE CAN BE DONE TO STOP THE SPREAD??? What would "tighter" restrictions mean? To me, next tighter level means no grocery and exercise :(

My local hospital is totally full. I don't understand why.

I have followed the rules very closely throughout however I would need real evidence to stop exercising regularly outdoors, to stop taking my daughter to a very quiet outdoor playground etc

The evidence is that it spreads person to person through breath. That's very clear. So you need to avoid seeing other people apart from the ones that you live with.

mistigirl now that's what I call a lockdown!

@wannadisc0 also listening to the radio, one of the reasons they give for tightening the rules is that people are not following the rules . So why give even tighter rules then, if you think enforcement of existing ones is what's needed.

The answer is government and scientists are terrified. Numbers in hospital are spiralling out of control. Even though infection rates appear to be plateauing and we've no idea if latest measures have worked, UK is already one of the countries with the highest death rates. If only they'd start lifting restrictions as fast as they pile them on when numbers do come down - I'm in Scotland and there were about 6 weeks in the summer when it was vaguely normal, but ongoing intrusive restrictions for the rest of it.

now that's what I call a lockdown

Yes. I find it amusing that you think the U.K. lockdowns have ever been strict. Spain was far stricter than France even.

I don't agree with all the French measures but I (mainly) understand and support the public health thinking behind them. I think it's important to understand that if you place enough restrictions on people's freedoms to gather and move around, and you enforce them, you may be able to keep schools open under some circumstances.

International travel. (FB friend enjoyed a nice two week jolly recently)

Business conferences (I also saw the post of 20+ delegates meeting at a Hilton)

Yesterday really poor mask compliance again in Tesco, along with whole families shopping, despite signs saying masks mandatory. Agree that shops need bouncers, sadly.

Agree with the likes of B&M closing as many of my family using it as an excuse to mooch.

Family members still getting mobile hairdressers in, non urgent workmen jobs etc.

There is no single source of infection. They have stopped releasing figures about where the spread is coming from but it’s pretty obvious from the news that it’s a big issue within prisons, hospitals and care homes. Just as last time. Schools would have been another major one and they have shut.

It is and has always been a balancing act. Everything you close has a consequence and a wider effect, which has to be balanced against how much transmission it can prevent. The virus isn’t spreading because of naughty people, it is doing what a virus does.

There is zero evidence that it is being spread from takeaway coffees, B&M or walking outside. People on here have decided that and are getting wound up about it, but why? Where is your evidence?

Everyone is suddenly an armchair expert on the new strain, despite verified information on it being quite sparse. We know it spreads a lot more and that warrants caution but people deciding how and where is ridiculous.

I am astounded at how indoctrinated to the government messaging many on here have become. This is the government who have done one of the worst jobs at handling the pandemic in the entire world.

Schools were open before Christmas and people were able to mix in some places. The government ignored calls to lockdown and our borders were open to international visitors. It was well known that people are not isolating when told to, for reasons they control. They would have had warnings from the scientific modelling and NHS about what would be coming and yet they let Christmas go ahead in big parts of the UK and didn’t lock down. Schools were safe on Monday and closed because they weren’t safe on the Tuesday.

Of course they now want you to blame other people. It takes the attention off of them! But you will notice there is no data to back this up. Just these tellings off.

But for some good news.

I’m in Wales and we locked down on Christmas Eve (my memory is fuzzy, but it was around then. The 20th maybe?). Anecdotally many didn’t follow the rules to the letter, it was busy out and didn’t feel particularly locked down until after Christmas when they ramped up the messaging.

Our numbers are now declining. In Cardiff we were at 800+ per 100k and are now in the 400s.

The same will happen for England. Yes even if women keep meeting perfectly legally for socially distanced exercise. But it will take 2-4 weeks.

England locked down on Tuesday? You have to ask yourself why less than a week later there is so much in the press about harsher rules. This is the government who say they didn’t lock down earlier the first time (saving many lives) because they knew people wouldn’t comply for long. We are nearly a year on. It’s fear mongering.

I read the Mail article, against my better judgement and they don’t mention the ridiculous once a week claim again. It’s got no source or any legs at all. It’s just clickbait so try not to worry.

We are in Scotland, places of worship are already closed with the exception of funeral or marriage. Nurseries are also closed.

I think we have a few more extra restrictions than England but it's not making a great deal of a difference. There is now talk of takeaways being closed too and I'm guessing that after yesterday's fiasco of the Celtic player testing positive after the Dubai trip there's also now talk of football stopping.

I'm unsure if all local authorities are the same but ours stipulates that BOTH parents must be keyworkers and that you have to provide a letter as proof. Also the list of key worker roles has been reassessed over the weekend. Also firm messages online from the council staying that if you are a key worker working from home your child should be at home with you and not in school, they also want to know in advance what days your child should be home/school.

I've seen parents on Facebook over the past week being open about sending their kids when they should really be at home because they have a days off through the week but they're still sending their kids, we don't really stand much of a chance when people constantly look for the loophole.

Everybody saying takeaway coffees should be banned please may I give you a different point of view? Today I shall be doing a 4 hour round trip in order to provide support for 2 different single adult households. It's my job and they have set hours of support contracted by local authorities for things such as admin, shopping, drs appointments issues with landlords etc, which, because they have mental health or issues or learning difficulties and other needs, they are not able to do themselves. My takeaway Costa at around 2pm this afternoon, which I shall have sitting alone in the car, will be my only hot drink today, until I get home at around 6pm. It is January, it's cold maybe remember that when you're drinking your 4th cup of coffee in your nice warm home/office and not begrudge those of us who have no option but to buy one whilst we are out.

The non urgent work part is difficult as sometimes it can be preventative. I think of a boiler service as being essential for example.

We had our boiler replaced before Christmas. The old one was still working but on its last legs. Should we have waited until it packed up? We need to extend the lease to our flat so will be having a surveyor coming round. Is that essential? Probably not but if we don't it could cost us thousands and delay us being able to move.

Same a others have said.
Household mixing - only 1 bubble not lots of them.
Less children at school.
Shut all places of worship.
No more than 5 miles travel for exercise. That's just to keep the chance of emergency for other reasons crash etc down since they are busy enough anyway.
Supermarkets to have less in at once. No more groups of families - stay in the car if you really must all go. Obvious exceptions for SEN
Large fines for people who have parties.

Takeaway coffee shops to close - how difficult is it to make your own.
Shops like the range to not open - I mean seriously, shopping!
TEST ALL PEOPLE LATERAL FLOW ARRIVING AT HOSPITAL
Vaccine to all people leaving hospital.
HAVE THE VACCINE SITES WORKIGN 24 HOURS A DAY TO GET MORE COVERED

Surely the answer is work out where transmission is happening and address that. But to do that you need an excellent track and trace system. My friend who tested positive just before Xmas was never contacted by anyone. She knew exactly how and when she got it, but that data was missed. I imagine that's the case for many. I remember graphs being presented in the summer about shops, restaurants etc. Where are they now?

There is lots more that could be done.

NZ's lockdown had only supermarkets open and banks (with very reduced hours) and petrol stations. No butchers, no liquor stores, no fruit and veg shops, no takeaway. No click and collect - home delivery only. No mixing with anyone who is not living in your household apart children swapping between parents households.

You worked from home or you didn't work with no exceptions unless you were producing essential supplies like food and then you must be social distancing. All building and construction sites closed.

No public transport unless you could prove you were a key worker and were on the way to work. Transport between areas not running unless for freight or you could prove that you were a key worker.

Exercise only if walking distance from home. Roadblocks and police checks to make sure people were only moving for essential reasons.

And of course borders totally closed.

But it took 4-6 weeks of those restrictions to eradicate covid with only 2 cases of proven community transmission. You would need many, many more weeks of this or even more restrictions in the UK.

Another thing to consider is that we haven’t seen a huge spike from Christmas mixing. The steady rise in cases can’t be blamed on that surely? That’s from weeks back.

A few days of out the ordinary mixing should create a spike we can see which then may grow exponentially. But we should be able to see it. And it may unfortunately be too soon, but I would have thought by now we would have began to see it.

I suspect that as schools were shut and people were off work, it balanced out. So no huge rise, just a sustained rise in cases.

I mention this as support bubbles keep being mentioned and blamed for our current numbers. Everything else is shut and people are not mixing freely so support bubbles should have no less impact than larger families.

Getting rid of them would damage public support, compliance and moral so much that it may compromise the lockdown and lead to civil unrest, distrust in the government etc. I just don’t think it’s a sensible option in the slightest.

Football
Tighter border controls (this is probably more of an issue than the "flocking to beaches"
Places of worship (why?!)
Financial Support to allow those who should isolate to do it

But please don't cut the daily exercise. For everyone but especially children this would be devastating. It's the only time I can get her off screens after years of hard work avoiding them (and now this is the only way she can socialise with children her age and have an education).

I agree with PP that places like the range, b&m etc should close, I dont really think they can be deemed as essential.

I do think people have given up social distancing as I avoid the supermarket at weekends so I can go when its quieter but most people aren't fussed about social distancing and will reach across you or stand really close behind you in the queue.

I dont think its fair to axe support bubbles as mental health with suffer badly if people are so alone.

The thing is, people won't follow it, my in laws are a nightmare and are mixing with each other and their friends all the time so how can you stop it?

@trappedsincesundaymorn

Everybody saying takeaway coffees should be banned please may I give you a different point of view? Today I shall be doing a 4 hour round trip in order to provide support for 2 different single adult households. It's my job and they have set hours of support contracted by local authorities for things such as admin, shopping, drs appointments issues with landlords etc, which, because they have mental health or issues or learning difficulties and other needs, they are not able to do themselves. My takeaway Costa at around 2pm this afternoon, which I shall have sitting alone in the car, will be my only hot drink today, until I get home at around 6pm. It is January, it's cold maybe remember that when you're drinking your 4th cup of coffee in your nice warm home/office and not begrudge those of us who have no option but to buy one whilst we are out.

Oh fgs, buy a thermos! Or just don't have a hot drink for 4 hours! I mean, sure, one person buying a takeaway coffee probably isn't going to raise the R rate, but keeping costas open makes people go out especially to go there (in my area anyway) when they'd be better off staying at home.

it is due to get worse, it is now 14 days post 28th december
14 days for the virus to incubate
then another couple of weeks of feeling ill
and query attempting to be admitted

i just heard the suggestion of masks in offices

@whippettiger

There is no single source of infection. They have stopped releasing figures about where the spread is coming from but it’s pretty obvious from the news that it’s a big issue within prisons, hospitals and care homes. Just as last time. Schools would have been another major one and they have shut.

It is and has always been a balancing act. Everything you close has a consequence and a wider effect, which has to be balanced against how much transmission it can prevent. The virus isn’t spreading because of naughty people, it is doing what a virus does.

There is zero evidence that it is being spread from takeaway coffees, B&M or walking outside. People on here have decided that and are getting wound up about it, but why? Where is your evidence?

Everyone is suddenly an armchair expert on the new strain, despite verified information on it being quite sparse. We know it spreads a lot more and that warrants caution but people deciding how and where is ridiculous.

I am astounded at how indoctrinated to the government messaging many on here have become. This is the government who have done one of the worst jobs at handling the pandemic in the entire world.

Schools were open before Christmas and people were able to mix in some places. The government ignored calls to lockdown and our borders were open to international visitors. It was well known that people are not isolating when told to, for reasons they control. They would have had warnings from the scientific modelling and NHS about what would be coming and yet they let Christmas go ahead in big parts of the UK and didn’t lock down. Schools were safe on Monday and closed because they weren’t safe on the Tuesday.

Of course they now want you to blame other people. It takes the attention off of them! But you will notice there is no data to back this up. Just these tellings off.

But for some good news.

I’m in Wales and we locked down on Christmas Eve (my memory is fuzzy, but it was around then. The 20th maybe?). Anecdotally many didn’t follow the rules to the letter, it was busy out and didn’t feel particularly locked down until after Christmas when they ramped up the messaging.

Our numbers are now declining. In Cardiff we were at 800+ per 100k and are now in the 400s.

The same will happen for England. Yes even if women keep meeting perfectly legally for socially distanced exercise. But it will take 2-4 weeks.

England locked down on Tuesday? You have to ask yourself why less than a week later there is so much in the press about harsher rules. This is the government who say they didn’t lock down earlier the first time (saving many lives) because they knew people wouldn’t comply for long. We are nearly a year on. It’s fear mongering.

I read the Mail article, against my better judgement and they don’t mention the ridiculous once a week claim again. It’s got no source or any legs at all. It’s just clickbait so try not to worry.

@whippettiger thank you. A very rational post!

Just driven to work (hospital). Roads are rammed. I think my definition of non-essential is probably very different to the conservatives. The idea that schools are closed and I still have friends at work selling curtains and motor homes is disgusting.

@Skipsurvey

i just heard the suggestion of masks in offices

We have to wear our masks as soon as you leave your desk. Been like that for a while here

It's social mixing! Fgs - noone socially distances, everyone gets together in groups, it's bloody obvious. Just stop seeing people for a couple of weeks!

Ignore me!

Oh fgs, buy a thermos! Or just don't have a hot drink for 4 hours! I mean, sure, one person buying a takeaway coffee probably isn't going to raise the R rate, but keeping costas open makes people go out especially to go there (in my area anyway) when they'd be better off staying at home

I'm about to leave for work now so it won't be for 4 hours it will be 9 and a half. The 4 hours does not include support hours, it's just my driving hours. As for getting a thermos...gosh if only I had thought of that.... oh wait.