How are people still catching the virus?

[Baileysforchristmas]

Numbers are still so high, are people catching it from supermarkets? Does 2 metres apart still stop you catching it? Are you still pretty safe outside if you stay at least 2 metres apart?

Dump???? Asymptomatic!!!! Sorry.

@hoodathunkit

Where I live the busses are quite busy with elderly people and other vulnerable adults using bus passes to enjoy journeys outside.

I have asked the bus drivers about it and they are upset and angry.

People get on the bus with a mask, go upstairs or to the back of the bus and pull their mask down and scoff crisps, or other food items.

I am no longer travelling on the bus but did just before the latest lockdown. Got screamed at by women who wore masks under their chins while having a loud, screechy conversation.

"Mind your own fucking business", "who are you the mask police?" "OK Karen" etc. etc.

The drivers are not allowed to challenge them so they just carry on travelling on non-essential journeys are are likely to do so until they get fined by the cops.

Depressing

How do you know that they're using the bus to get to work, or do essential shopping, or to get to medical appointments? How can you deduce otherwise from watching a bus whizz past you? Are you randomly stopping buses and asking passengers what they're up to? How have you asked the bus drivers about it when you're not using the bus yourself this lockdown? Why would you be hanging around chatting to the driver (not socially distanced I'd imagine - you'd have to get pretty close to be heard through masks and their perspex screen)? So many questions!

And you have absolutely no right to challenge someone about their mask wearing (or lack thereof).

Millions of people are still using public transport to get to work, or care for others, or for essential shopping/appointments. Elderly people or those with concessionary passes especially may rely on it. The 'cops' aren't going to fine people for getting on the bus - as much as you'd like them to.

It is really important to remember that viral load probably plays an inportant role in terms of whether infected people go on to become symptomatic and also whether people with symptoms go on to develop severe covid disease.

When I wear my mask and wash and sanitise my hands I am doing so to try not only to avoid the virus but to avoid the amount of virus.

We can all only do the best we can to get through this as best we can xx

How do you know that they're using the bus to get to work, or do essential shopping, or to get to medical appointments? How can you deduce otherwise from watching a bus whizz past you? Are you randomly stopping buses and asking passengers what they're up to? How have you asked the bus drivers about it when you're not using the bus yourself this lockdown?

Chatting to the drives outside, wearing a mask at a 2 meter or more istance, while the driver is in the bus behind a screen

You're welcome

*How do you know that they're not

@hoodathunkit

How do you know that they're using the bus to get to work, or do essential shopping, or to get to medical appointments? How can you deduce otherwise from watching a bus whizz past you? Are you randomly stopping buses and asking passengers what they're up to? How have you asked the bus drivers about it when you're not using the bus yourself this lockdown?

Chatting to the drives outside, wearing a mask at a 2 meter or more istance, while the driver is in the bus behind a screen

You're welcome

You still haven't told me how you know they're not going to work/essential shopping/medical appointments.

People are allowed to use the buses. That's why they're running.

You're welcome

This is the Christmas outcome - multiplied by the new variant = carnage.

I have recently tested positive. I live in a small town in Wales. The only place I have been is to the supermarket once a week. I wash my hands and wear a mask. I try to social distance but so many people don’t and will walk in across you or lean over you. I have followed all the rules as my MIL is extremely vulnerable and in our bubble as she is shielding and lives alone so we shop for her . Whole household is now positive. Kids are fine (16&5) DH and I are feeling pretty grim. Did not have the usual symptoms at first either! Headache, runny nose, sinus pain and body aches. The Nhs app said I did not have COVID and did not need to isolate. I stayed home anyway as I didn’t feel quite right. The Fever and cough came 3 days later.

And you have absolutely no right to challenge someone about their mask wearing (or lack thereof).

I often let people know that their masks have fallen down. Often they don't realise. On a couple of occasions I have walked into a shop, while stressed and not realised that I have not got my mask on. If someone said "you don't have a mask on" I would appologise and put it on quickly.

If people wear masks to get on the bus and then take them off while having a loud conversation (risky) I am completely within my rights to point out that they are not wearing a mask and to ask them to please put it back on.

Usually people do put their masks back on. Sometimes people say they are exempt and there's nothing I can say to them.

Sometimes people are rude and hostile and scream "I have a right!" or "you have no right!" because some people are so preoccupied with their own selfish agenda that they cannot bear the thought of enduring a minor inconvenience, even if it risks the lives of others.

People like this are why we are in the mess we are in today and their selfish behaviour risks placing the country in a dire situation.

@hoodathunkit

And you have absolutely no right to challenge someone about their mask wearing (or lack thereof).

I often let people know that their masks have fallen down. Often they don't realise. On a couple of occasions I have walked into a shop, while stressed and not realised that I have not got my mask on. If someone said "you don't have a mask on" I would appologise and put it on quickly.

If people wear masks to get on the bus and then take them off while having a loud conversation (risky) I am completely within my rights to point out that they are not wearing a mask and to ask them to please put it back on.

Usually people do put their masks back on. Sometimes people say they are exempt and there's nothing I can say to them.

Sometimes people are rude and hostile and scream "I have a right!" or "you have no right!" because some people are so preoccupied with their own selfish agenda that they cannot bear the thought of enduring a minor inconvenience, even if it risks the lives of others.

People like this are why we are in the mess we are in today and their selfish behaviour risks placing the country in a dire situation.

Doesn't matter. You still have no right to 'remind' or challenge anyone, unless you're doing so in an official capacity.

Dr on C4 just now "very little evidence people aren't following the rules".

It's not about "the rules" it's because it's a virus. She also says more needs to be done to support the elderly and vulnerable to STAY AT HOME with a financial support package and more comprehensive community support.

You still haven't told me how you know they're not going to work/essential shopping/medical appointments.

They are predominently people in their 70s and 80s who are lonely and want a day out and are in denial about the virus (at least this is what the drivers tell me). Obviously they are at extremely high risk from the virus but they do not believe it will ever happen to them.

I know also because I used to get the bus every day to go an exercise outside in running water. I had to stop during the first lockdown but became quite ill from lack of exercise and my physio advised me to travel on the bus with great care.

When I got on the bus it was full of elderly people and other vulnerable people, almost all of them either not wearing masks or wearing them incorrectly.

I spoke to several drivers (I was / am thinking of making a film about this issue) and they all said that there had been no real change in the habits of the pensioners and other vulnerable people with bus passes over the (1st) lockdown.

I spoke to essential workers, one in tears, who was scared of travelling on the bus because it was so crowded, mostly with people enjoying the journey and not wearing masks or sanitising.

Nobody is taking about it, but it is a very serious problem.

Then in addition to the people who simply do not believe or understand the risks you get extremely selfish people like the women who screamed at me recently.

Their position was that they don't like wearing masks, they don't feel at risk (they were in their 30s) and if people are at risk they should be home in bed. Oh and they had a really well developed senes of their own importance and that nobody would ever tell them what to do.

FWIW I do understand that not everyone has a mask and I keep a selection of new, reusable, cheap masks, in their wrappers, and have given them out to people who want to wear one but just don't have one.

I have given away maybe 20 or 30 since the first lockdown. People seem very grateful for them.

I work in a school. The numbers of those attending are increasing. Now that those that can't access the internet can now attend too we'll be at about 50%. I know full well the children that I work with can access the internet via xbox. They're always on it. Apparently now they can't. They want a free laptop. Once they get it they'll complain about not being able to access the internet and then be sent in to school because the parents will have had enough of them. Good luck with getting the laptops back. I can't believe some of the emails our staff have received from entitled parents. Schools should be closed completely to all unless you have 2 keyworkers or are a single parent family and vulnerable children obviously. Sorry. I know it'll upset many but if we could just be stricter on those allowed to have a space we'd help curb the spread I'm sure. Also a vaccine for us in schools too would ensure we could remain open and it have to shut bubbles. I have children in my group still mixing households thus putting us adults in the school and.out families at risk too. Time will telll I guess

Or they are positive without symptoms and then it gets spread innocently....
My daughter tested positive over Christmas (tested as she had been in contact at school and dad works with vulnerable adults) and you wouldn’t have known at all that she had it.

Anywhere, because that is the ecological 'purpose' of a virus. Very successful viruses are often both easily transmissible, as well as asymptomatic and mild so that they can spread without killing their hosts.
It is impossible for a lockdown to stop this kind of virus in its tracks if we still want food, utilities, healthcare, police services or any kind of essential service (unless a country entirely closes its borders of course, including to all cargo, because the virus arrives). We have as a society decided that schools are not essential, but we still presumably need to eat etc.
Much transmission is of course in hospitals and, still, in care homes.

A local outbreak where I live was traced back to Sainsbury’s and seems to have affected quite a few people. My husband’s work (pharma keyworker) has also had an outbreak.

Doesn't matter. You still have no right to 'remind' or challenge anyone, unless you're doing so in an official capacity.

because asking people who take their masks off on the bus if they wouldn't mind puttign them back on is illegal
......

oh wait

maybe it's their behaviour that is illegal

I am not a lawyer - this is so confusing

@MrPickles73

abraxan data from Sweden suggests keeping schools open gave no higher transmission rate. All I have seen is anecdotal evidence in UK. Of the people I know who've caught it: 1 x working in hospital 1 x at work 2 x unknown but don't have any contact with school aged kids

We have 2 school aged kids and hence know loads of families and yet to have an example of child bringing COVID home from school. Would like to see evidence on this theory.

There is also contrasting views against this, one is posted by a pp.

Your anecdotal evidence is not more and no less significant to others, just because it doesn't include a case from school.

My own anecdotal shows that in my family, including parents, siblings, aunts/uncles, grandparents, cousins - extended as I come from a large family in both sides and only 3 have had positive covid tests. The most likely places they caught it are:

Me - school (I work there)
Nana - hospital (she was in for palliative care for another reason)
Cousin - care home (she works there)

Of friends it is a longer list due to my job and the fact that covid swept round our primary school. 3/4 of the staff ended up testing positive for covid. Many had not been anywhere else for a c]variety of reasons. Several parents tested positive. Only a handful of children were tested and of those at least 50% tested positive, though did not have the three 'testable' symptoms.

Of the ones I have known I'm the only nea who ended up in hospital with covid related issues, my nana was already there and it wasn't covid which ended her life. Several, mainly women, are suffering with longer lasting effects to some degree, namely fatigue, brain fog and continuing aches.

Dh knows of some people who have caught it through his job. Of those most caught it either in hospital or a care home, and most of his clients were elderly. Two colleagues caught them most likely though their secondary school children, where it was passing through.

All anecdotal data I grant you. But no less significant than your own, just because mine includes a lot of school based staff.

Porcupineintherough you don't think its an obvious piece of data to collect and if thousands of teachers had died of COVID the unions would have found this data by now?

There are parents at our school who have admitted that they don’t care what happens as long as they can continue to send their children in to school. I am a single parent working FT, and have agonised about the fact that I haven’t sent DD to school. The school would let me, but I can WFH although it’s extremely hard, so I feel I should. Doctor friends have recommended wearing masks outdoors if possible if anywhere near other people. Whilst people think being 2m apart is a protection (it’s not) and the virus can’t be caught outside (it can) many will takes risks without the realising it, whilst others will take risks knowingly. And the virus will keep spreading.

In the supermarket today, the workers and the some customers were only wearing the masks over their mouths not noses😮

All this blame for schools and nurseries. It is not them. Where is the proof? Blame it on the kids why doesn't everyone. Primary schools should be open still. Most likely people not following the rules and socialising but not admitting it.

schools and my nans neighbour has a carer who brought it into his flat :/

@AJA108

All this blame for schools and nurseries. It is not them. Where is the proof? Blame it on the kids why doesn't everyone. Primary schools should be open still. Most likely people not following the rules and socialising but not admitting it.

Nobody is blaming it on children. It's a virus and it's doing it's own thing. The whole idea that children didn't catch covid or spread it was disproved months ago.

But sadly the reality is that children, like adults, can catch covid and can spread it.

Fortunately most children catch a mild version so they themselves don't become ill. Unfortunately some of the adults who,work in those schools and some of the adults who those children live with or have contact with are more likely to become ill with covid.

At my own primary - infant - school 3/4 of our staff caught covid. Several parents did and some children too, though fewer children were tested. All 9 classes had at least one period of self isolation due to at least one positive case in the class. I ended up in hospital with covid complications. Also a number of staff, myself included, are continuing to suffer with ongoing health issues following it. Okay, granted no one died. But unfortunately they aren't monitoring the health issues following covid in school staff either.

And yes, some teaching and school staff have died as a result of covid. Some have been seriously ill and hospitalised. Some have required icu treatment. Others have needed in excess of the 10 days off work,

It is quite likely that the children were involved in the transmission of covid throughout the school to at least the same extent as the adults (parents and school staff.)

The graphs show us that children are catching covid in higher numbers. Take a look at them. When schools were open fully the number of cases in those school age groups rose steeply.

Unfortunately schools cannot be made overly covid secure. There is no social distancing, no masks, no protection bar the odd opening window. Almost all staff, including clinically vulnerable ones, are expected to work without even the basic protections available to many other workers.

Fortunately the scientists do have an inkling of what is going on regarding children and the part they play. Hence schools are currently closed to all but vulnerable and key worker children.

Hopefully this means fewer adults - teachers and parents - will become ill as a result.