A thought experiment about children

[Chessie678]

Imagine that pre-covid there is a mother with a 6 year old son.

She becomes very scared of the child getting or spreading “diseases”. For this reason she keeps the child inside most of the time and does not let him play with other children. She tells him to stay away from others in case he infects them and makes him change his clothes and scrub his hands whenever he has been outside. She doesn’t take him on trips and the only time they go out is to walk around their local neighbourhood. He is not allowed to attend any clubs or play sport.

The mother’s behaviour escalates and she begins to keep her son off school for long periods of time, citing the risk of “diseases”. She stops contact with the child’s grandparents and cousins, telling the child that he might murder his grandmother if they see her. If he gets ill she locks him in his room and brings food to the door.

Sometimes she will send him back to school for a period but makes him wear a mask and tells him not to touch anything or get too near another child.

Having worked with vulnerable children in the past, I think this scenario would far exceed the threshold for social services intervention and suggests severe mental health issues in the mother.

Clearly the rationale for how we are treating children at the moment is different in that the threat from covid is much more severe than the threat from the “diseases” which the mother is concerned about but the treatment of the child is essentially the same in either case.

People on here often say that children are resilient and adaptable and I agree that they can be. But the idea that subjecting a child to this sort of treatment could make them stronger is rose tinted at best – more often abuse in childhood leaves scars which carry through into adulthood.

My view is that the end doesn’t justify the means so far as children are concerned i.e. there are some things which you should never do to children however noble the goal is. I am very concerned that we have started to normalise the current restrictions – just today I have seen posters on here claim that it doesn’t matter if children don’t have any social interaction with other children or any education for months at a time.

I’m aware that many mothers on here will have done everything they can to mitigate the impacts of covid on their children so I’m not trying to say that all children are being abused or will be scarred by this but I do think that what we are doing to children as a society is completely unethical and will have serious long-term effects for many.

This is interesting. It makes me uneasy too, OP.

But in your scenario that behaviour isn’t necessary hence the need for concern. We are in the middle of a fucking pandemic

Covid actually exists though

I think it's very tough for children but have a for comparing what we are all being asked to do to your scenario.

I agree with you OP. Telling a child they might kill their family members if they hug them must be detrimental to their mental health and for some children will cause huge anxiety.

I agree with you OP. Our response to Covid risks doing untold damage to a whole generation of children. Many will justify it as necessary and inevitable given the severity of the situation, but at the very least we should recognise the sacrifices our children and young people are making and plan for how to mitigate for the lasting effects - additional support staff in schools; more funding for child mental health etc.

Probably children didn't like being sent to live with complete strangers during the war either, but needs must. Plus it is different when we're all in the same boat and the children understand that everyone has to make changes temporarily, until enough people are vaccinated to make the country safer again.

Author Margaret Atwood had an interesting childhood, being homeschooled with her brother until she was 12 as her father studied biology in very remote places. As far as I can see, the boredom made her more imaginative and creative and she hasn't spoken of feeling scarred by the experience, as far as I'm aware.

Also, why only mothers? Don't fathers, you know, parent?

Not as unethical as letting their grandparents/parents die by disregarding the precautions we need to take

I agree with you. It’s unpopular but DS is going to school this lockdown (I am in healthcare) even though DH is WFH. Last time I was off and I kept him at home. As an only child he was so sad, it was awful. I will never do that to him again. He needs to see other children.

Yanbu op. I know a toddler who hasn't seen another child at all since March last year and I do believe long-term damage has been done there. And we're not allowed to mention or acknowledge the damage at all because of the virus. It's so sad. The virus isn't all that matters imo.

telling the child that he might murder his grandmother if they see her.

I doubt this is how parents are explaining covid restrictions to their children because that would be abuse in my opinion.

A pandemic is a completely different scenario to an individual family with irrational fears withdrawing from society.

I agree.

Probably children didn't like being sent to live with complete strangers during the war either, but needs must. Plus it is different when we're all in the same boat and the children understand that everyone has to make changes temporarily, until enough people are vaccinated to make the country safer again.
Do you think? My dad was evacuated during the war abs never fucking recovered - even though it was with relatives. As a result he had minimal schooling (evacuees were not allowed to be taught with ‘normal’ kids), absolutely fuck all relationship with his dad and was horribly bullied by his aunt, cousins and neighbouring kids. When he turned 13 he escaped back to London and took his chances.
Please don’t minimise the damage of evacuation to a whole generation of children during the war.

OP I agree with you. We are inflicting a terrible toll on children. Not everyone agrees that the current restrictions are necessary, but surely we can all see the damage inflicted on the youngest members of society.

I agree with the essence of what you are saying. We need to be careful to control what our children hear about the pandemic and how we talk to them about it.

But evacuated children were not told to isolate from others, were they?
They had community?

Yes I have though about this.
Did you see this car OP? www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/02/children-locked-up-by-parents-over-covid-should-not-go-home-rules-swedish-court

@SillyUnMurphy that is interesting and very sad. It is too easy to say that children are resilient and adaptable, as if that justifies whatever we inflict. Your story shows that damage can last long after the justification has finished.

My DC’s experience of the pandemic, while pretty crap, doesn’t resemble that of the OP at all.

[quote Flyonawalk]@SillyUnMurphy that is interesting and very sad. It is too easy to say that children are resilient and adaptable, as if that justifies whatever we inflict. Your story shows that damage can last long after the justification has finished.[/quote]
Incredibly sad. I say never recovered but he recovered in that he educated himself and became a strong and successful man. What he didn’t recover from was the emotional abuse, bullying and lack of love and relationship with his parents (he was an only child)

Except that the threat now is real, it is temporary, and most people are not scaring their kids in that way. Protecting people from getting sick is not that same as suggesting that they might 'murder' a relative - who puts that on their kids?
What you suggest would of course cause long term damage. But a few weeks restrictions by a sensible adult not saying stupid things is not the same thing at all.

I haven't told my kids that they will kill their grandparents if they visit them.
She is still going to school. And having some clubs over zoom.
She washes her hands as normal after being outdoors. But we dont 'scrub' her hands or change her clothes.
She has played with the neighbour kids. And after assessing the risks has visited family.
I'm doubt there are many families as extreme as your thought experiment.

And I definitely would never lock my 6 year old up and bring food to her even if she was positive for covid. That's just evil.

The core of your fake scenario is that the mother is delusional. It’s not the same. The vast majority of parents will be doing their best to mitigate the undoubted negative impacts, in whatever way they can, for this essential period. And when it’s over, we’ll go on doing our best to mitigate the impacts.

I agree. Every child has the right to social interaction and education.