A thought experiment about children

[Chessie678]

Imagine that pre-covid there is a mother with a 6 year old son.

She becomes very scared of the child getting or spreading “diseases”. For this reason she keeps the child inside most of the time and does not let him play with other children. She tells him to stay away from others in case he infects them and makes him change his clothes and scrub his hands whenever he has been outside. She doesn’t take him on trips and the only time they go out is to walk around their local neighbourhood. He is not allowed to attend any clubs or play sport.

The mother’s behaviour escalates and she begins to keep her son off school for long periods of time, citing the risk of “diseases”. She stops contact with the child’s grandparents and cousins, telling the child that he might murder his grandmother if they see her. If he gets ill she locks him in his room and brings food to the door.

Sometimes she will send him back to school for a period but makes him wear a mask and tells him not to touch anything or get too near another child.

Having worked with vulnerable children in the past, I think this scenario would far exceed the threshold for social services intervention and suggests severe mental health issues in the mother.

Clearly the rationale for how we are treating children at the moment is different in that the threat from covid is much more severe than the threat from the “diseases” which the mother is concerned about but the treatment of the child is essentially the same in either case.

People on here often say that children are resilient and adaptable and I agree that they can be. But the idea that subjecting a child to this sort of treatment could make them stronger is rose tinted at best – more often abuse in childhood leaves scars which carry through into adulthood.

My view is that the end doesn’t justify the means so far as children are concerned i.e. there are some things which you should never do to children however noble the goal is. I am very concerned that we have started to normalise the current restrictions – just today I have seen posters on here claim that it doesn’t matter if children don’t have any social interaction with other children or any education for months at a time.

I’m aware that many mothers on here will have done everything they can to mitigate the impacts of covid on their children so I’m not trying to say that all children are being abused or will be scarred by this but I do think that what we are doing to children as a society is completely unethical and will have serious long-term effects for many.

Developmentally the younger the child the bigger the damage.

Where is the evidence of this? And who are all these one year olds who haven't seen an adult outside their household since March? For several months, people were allowed to mox in groups of 6. Early years settings are open now.

And I agree with PP, we need to tone down the rhetoric of pitting the old against the young. Even if that were ethically acceptable, we are all affected if the healthcare system cannot cope. Children won't be able to access it fully either. Where do you draw the line? There are many, many people in their 30s/40s/50s/60s being treated for Covid.

Also, scientific modelling has been done for what would happen if the elderly and vulnerable shielded and just let the rest of us get on with it. If this was a viable option, do we really think the Conservative government wouldn't have just gone with this? They're not exactly known for their benevolence towards the vulnerable.

@Bitbusyattheminute

Just out of interest, how did wealthy kids in Victorian times cope? I'm sure there will be historians along with more info, but I get the impression that many (especially girls who didn't go to boarding school) had pretty isolated childhoods, with prolonged periods of no socialising with other kids.

As we learn more and more about psychology and trauma, many practises that were acceptable are dropped. Hopefully each generation does a little better than the last.

@lavenderlou up here in the north we have been under stricter restrictions for much longer. Also not all under 3s parents have the funds to pay for nursery so not all children have acsess to early years settings. As usual the poor are hit the most

I strongly disagree.

If I saw someone dragging their child out of their house in the middle of the night, screaming, and pouring water on them, I might call social services.

Now, thought experiment, imagine there's a fire in the house.

It's about context isn't it?

Strweth.

[quote Toomuchtodo21]@lavenderlou up here in the north we have been under stricter restrictions for much longer. Also not all under 3s parents have the funds to pay for nursery so not all children have acsess to early years settings. As usual the poor are hit the most[/quote]
This is so true some places north have been in a near full lockdown since march

An example of the messaging that children can see

If you go out, you will spread out, people will die.

Can anyone see a scenario where a parent is going to have to work very hard indeed to convince a conscientious child, one with anxiety or neurodiversity that a walk to the park will not cause people to die.

@buzzinwithbez that is horrific to see if my young dd saw this it would not be able to get her to leave the house as it would make her so anxious, children need fresh air exercise, they have already had school taken away, family and friends taken away now they not allowed to go for a walk, Really??

So, comparing the UK with New Zealand, say, they had a much quicker and more comprehensive response.

However, the overall effects on children are likely to be less as their society was comparatively much less affected by the pandemic, from what we've seen so far.

They are, like us, an island nation (though they are more rural and a bit more remote).

As a general principle though, prompt, decisive action is the best plan to protect our society (and our children).

Conversely, procrastination and trying to pretend there isn't a problem is what has led us to this mess.

Now that we have got to this point, we need to listen to the scientists for Christsake, that is, the reputable ones like Chris Whitty and Prof Van Tamm.

Please can we find a way to sack the current cabinet?

@Buzzinwithbez

Can anyone see a scenario where a parent is going to have to work very hard indeed to convince a conscientious child, one with anxiety or neurodiversity that a walk to the park will not cause people to die

Probably for very anxious or neurodiverse children it will be difficult, yes, but for many children, if parents take the time to explain clearly they will understand.

Probably for very anxious or neurodiverse children it will be difficult, yes, but for many children, if parents take the time to explain clearly they will understand.*

Which is what I said.
Assuming the child is able to verbalise their fear so that it can be addressed.

OP may have missed the point that it's also in the best interests of the children. They are not simply being inconvenienced for others but inconvenienced for their own welfare.

If an example is needed consider calling the hospital because your child has appendicitis and getting a recorded message saying that no one will be available for at least a fortnight because they have been overwhelmed by covid cases. For that matter it might have some mild emotional consequence if their parents die horribly.

It’s a interesting take on things. My sons disability swim club folded and he has put on tonnes of weight as all of his safe, SEN exercise has stopped. We don’t really talk about CV at home so as not add to the kids mental load. They know and understand but but we haven’t scored the life out them like some others have.

I think the kids have been exposed to something like low level neglect as they aren’t being stimulated like a normal child. Neither can I keep my house tidy and clean now as I can’t hoover during the day due to live lessons. School finishes at 4.20 and I normally clean a bit everyday when they are out of the house.

My sons disability SW is turning up literally in a hour. I can’t find the motivation to try to get the house tidy while the kids are running about.

Low level every day neglect from lack of various stimulation must be pretty normal now? I used to take the kids to 2-3 clubs a week. Now they are only in cubs and rainbows when that’s allowed. I’m not sure we will go back to our clubs.