I’m just angry now

[BathFullOfEels]

They knew a vaccine would be the only way of getting us out of this mess. The country has already been locked down twice. Why, why, why didn’t they use this time to set up the logistics of distributing and administering these vaccines?

Why, why, why are the government allowed to decide who to prioritise to receive these vaccines when they were always going to distribute in a way that benefits them. Surely any government with an ounce of realism would be self aware enough to realise that they would make this vaccine distribution a political decision and instead allow the decision to be made by an independent third party who can distribute it in a way that would allow the country to get back to work. Instead it’s likely that months and months down the line we’ll all be forced to go back to work despite still be unprotected.

I have visions of pensioners being able to swan off on holiday over the summer while the workers of the country will still be unable to.

It’s an absolute fucking farce. Watching that press conference last night just finally made it snap for me - they genuinely don’t know what they’re doing at all

It looks like vaccine rollout will be the same shambles as PPE. Lots of small companies with experience being ignored when they could help.

This lot couldn't organise anything. They can't work with people, they don't consult properly, and instead of giving contracts to the best person, they hand them out to mates. Their incompetence is shocking and I hope the Tory party sufferers for it.

Ffs you can be as angry as you like. It's not going to change the way vaccines are been carried out.

[quote Icequeen01]@Ihatefish What rubbish! This most certainly is not the case with the over 60's. My 81 year old mother just wants to be able to go to the local shop if she needs to - still wearing a mask and SD, without worrying it could kill her. She's never been on a bloody cruise her life. I will be 60 this year and I work full time and believe it or not I am still fit and able and also never been in a cruise in my life. What a horrible post. [/quote]
My parents are the same. They had the first jab 3 weeks ago and are under no illusion they can 'swan about' and also have never been on a cruise nor would they want to. They will still follow all the guidelines for as long as that is.

@Flaxmeadow

The hatred towards elderly people on here is mind blowing

Agreed,but would add the presenting of "ECV are at death's door anyway" bloody offensive. But can't stop,need to stop looking after my toddler so I can get dressed for my team meeting in key worker WFH job.

The vaccine is not a cure, it's to help prevent people getting really sick with covid.

My head does understand it. It makes logic sense. And I think they are doing really well with the vaccines.
But I am scared. Because I am scared one of us are in that small % that get complications, and to be honest, for my particular family, I am positive we will get exposed to the virus (hopefully not ill) before we even make it to the vaccination list. We, working parents and child, have to abide by all the rules, live in fear of losing our jobs, homes, struggling to provide for the children, juggling work and school, not seeing friends.... list goes on and on. Yet, we will not get the protection of the vaccines, because we are low risk. My head can understand it, and of course I want to help protecting others! But emotionally, I cannot reconcile with it.
My main fear is my child. Because the vaccine is not even licensed for them yet (though I do understand, that if ever needed, it will take very short for it to be available). Yet, she is the one at more risk of getting in contact with the virus.
In a way, I feel like we are acting like a shield. To protect others by either staying at home or getting natural immunity after getting the virus.
My hope is that these vaccines do act as a shield to us (both from getting this damn virus and, more importantly, from being unable to get to a hospital if we have an accident or similar), in return. But we have to wait till we get the data.
It is suffer, wait, fear, learn new data and get your head aroubd, suffer some more, wait, fear... over and over!

I certainly have debated in my own mind whether working are people should be vaccinated first. I think the priority of the government however, is to protect the NHS. It is the older people that are more likely to be hospitalised whilst the younger people get it and can be very ill, but are ill at home.

I have worked in education most of my life, currently in higher education, and the issue with the argument to vaccinate teachers is that is doesn't then suddenly make it safe for children to return to school. They will still be carriers and spreaders. They'll still take it home to potentially vulnerable families. It will still spread in the community from the children as they are not getting vaccinated. Vaccinating teachers also opens up requests from other groups ie supermarket workers who also feel (and quite rightly so) that they should have equal priority. And let's not forget the number of teachers and support staff in the country is vast- hundreds of thousands of not in the millions. It would push other more vulnerable people way down the queue. While I would love to be vaccinated and would love my daughter to go back to school, it is a complex issue.

For me, I'm happy to back the scientists and if they say this is the right order (and they do) then it's good enough for me.

They are doing thr over 80s first to keep the death figures low, nothing to do with protecting the NHS because without being fucking awful, if my relative at 80+ became ill with covid I wouldn't want anything other than basic oxygen and palliative care. Cos 80+ is a good bloody innings and what happens once they recover? Straight to a carehome to die in a few months time.

Jesus Christ, "without being funcking awful"???? That statement is the definition of "fucking awful", and thank God I am not related to you. I suppose you are also supervising the contents of their will? Slipping in a bit of arsenic if they don't expire fast enough for your mind? You aren't a card carrying National Socialist are you? There is no less value to any life, no matter what age that person is. When we start deciding whose life holds more value then we are on a very slippery slope.

I agree that workers should be prioritised for the vaccine, but can see why they are doing it as they are.
The elderly and vulnerable are more likely to end up in hospital from the virus, so if vaccinated, they are less likely to fill up the hospitals.

What would be the point of vaccinating people who have no impact at all on the load on the nhs? You vaccinate the working population, it's insufficient to create herd immunity so we all have to remain in strict lockdown anyway until the vulnerable get the vaccine anyway

Whereas once the vulnerable are done we can all swan off

There's a graph that shows how wrong you are. Can't remember where to find it.

If the NHS weren't so pressured, we could do this. But it is, so we're prioritising reducing hospital admissions in order to keep hospitals functioning. Vaccinating the old and ECV will reduce hospital admissions far, far quicker than vaccinating the working age population.

Plus, a lot of working age people have had it. 1 in 30 people in London had it at some point last week.

@Flaxmeadow

Teachers aren't being vaccinated because they don't work with a vulnerable group. Vaccinating workers isn't about protecting them, it protects who they work with

Exactly

What about teachers in specials schools? My son's school is shut again despite government advice for special needs schools to remain open. Even if it did open many of the pupils have vulnerabilities which mean they would be unable to attend.

@BathFullOfEels

I think it should be front line NHS workers and care home workers, then teachers and schools staff so the kids can return, then all key workers and shielding, all working age people so the country can work again, then 60+.

A 25 year old teacher should not be receiving the vaccine ahead of a vulnerable person. The vulnerable groups include many parents, people having to head out to work and teachers. They will be prioritised. They do need to make sure these groups are vaccinated before things are opened up again. These decisions are driven by medical ethics. Also if hospitals are full of the vulnerable, nobody else will be able to access treatments. It will affect everybody. They have clearly stated that once vulnerable groups have been vaccinated they will be looking at further priority groups ( these may be socially or economically driven decisions such as teachers, transport workers etc. ). I am a vulnerable parent and if your system was followed, there would be many like me exposed to high risk. That might not matter to you but I am thankful that the government are making these decisions on medical grounds .

@EasterIssland

When this government makes a decision based on facts not when they are forced to, or do you think all schools are safe?

@the80sweregreat

The working population should get the vaccine first. Makes sense to me but I'm sure someone will come along and say I'm wrong!

It’s older people who are filling up our hospitals and overwhelming the NHS. It’s not difficult to understand why they need to be vaccinated first.

It looks like vaccine rollout will be the same shambles as PPE. Lots of small companies with experience being ignored when they could help.

This lot couldn't organise anything. They can't work with people, they don't consult properly, and instead of giving contracts to the best person, they hand them out to mates. Their incompetence is shocking and I hope the Tory party sufferers for it

Here they come, the political agitators. The "I know better" armchair brigade

The UK has vaccinated 1.4 million people so far. Far higher than just about every other country on earth, bar Israel, and much more than any other comparable European country has managed to do.

Sorry, who provided palliative care again?

Most over 80s are only getting that anyway as ventilation is usually too severe, but along with the rest of the vulnerable that leads to nhs overload

I am one of the "old folk" and would happily give up my vaccination to someone much younger and who helps keep the economy going.

I am too, and fully agree. Much older MIL has been lined up for the jab. It will be difficult to get her to the appointment, because she's not very mobile, and can't go out much now. I would much rather see the jab go to carers who come in, and the neighbours who pop round regularly, all of whom could pass it on.

But the real problem is that by constantly chopping and changing over the last ten months, people have lost confidence in what the Government says. Because they will change their mind again tomorrow morning.

The priority list is based on who is most likely to die or be hospitalised.

If we have less people hospitalised with Covid then other healthcare eg cancer ops can go ahead. Right now they are being cancelled.

People under 50 are very unlikely to die or be seriously unwell so it makes no sense to prioritise them for the vaccine.

Not everyone needs to be vaccinated for restrictions to stop. Just the most vulnerable.

This is not political its just pragmatic utilitarian ethics.

Save your ire for the shambolic implementation eg I am in charge of a captive audience of very vulnerable patients but I am not allowed to vaccinate those patients in my own (mental health) hospital because we have been allocated no vaccine supplies. They have to wait for their GP to do it when they are home. Try explaining that to their relatives.

instead allow the decision to be made by an independent third party who can distribute it in a way that would allow the country to get back to work.

@BathFullOfEels The decision was made by an independent third party - it's called the JCVI. Be angry only at your only stupidity for not checking the facts before posting rubbish. Their decision is the right one.

[quote Sobeyondthehills]@EasterIssland

When this government makes a decision based on facts not when they are forced to, or do you think all schools are safe?[/quote]
again the decisions related with who gets the vaccine is the same around the world.

You dont understand why they are prioritising vaccinating the people most likely to get seriously ill and die? Really? Are you sure it's not just that you dont see their lives as important ?

Ah yes my 81 yr old dm with heart failure can’t wait to have her jab so she can ‘swan about’ going on holiday, to the bingo etc or whatever it is these old folk do, laughing at all the unvaccinated working people as she goes.

Or maybe she is just anxious to have the vaccine so she can feel a degree of safety again, go to the corner shop or see her grandchildren without being worried that it may result in her death.

@Scarlett1251
Excellent post. I am also happy to back the scientists and think it’s funny how so many think they can do better.

@longtimemarried

I am one of the "old folk" and would happily give up my vaccination to someone much younger and who helps keep the economy going.

So what about when you catch the virus and take up an expensive hospital bed that would otherwise have been used by a younger person who needed treatment for something different that keeps them economically active?