I’m just angry now

[BathFullOfEels]

They knew a vaccine would be the only way of getting us out of this mess. The country has already been locked down twice. Why, why, why didn’t they use this time to set up the logistics of distributing and administering these vaccines?

Why, why, why are the government allowed to decide who to prioritise to receive these vaccines when they were always going to distribute in a way that benefits them. Surely any government with an ounce of realism would be self aware enough to realise that they would make this vaccine distribution a political decision and instead allow the decision to be made by an independent third party who can distribute it in a way that would allow the country to get back to work. Instead it’s likely that months and months down the line we’ll all be forced to go back to work despite still be unprotected.

I have visions of pensioners being able to swan off on holiday over the summer while the workers of the country will still be unable to.

It’s an absolute fucking farce. Watching that press conference last night just finally made it snap for me - they genuinely don’t know what they’re doing at all

They need to reduce burden on hospitals.
However, I do think that ECV and CV who go out to work (particularly as key workers) should be higher up the list straight after health staff.
If all CV teachers were vaccinated we could get schools back once cases drop.

The old folk still have to shield even when they’ve had their jabs !

'Old folk' have never been asked to shield - that was based in CEV, not age.

If you want to prolong restrictions, then yes leave pressure on NHS by not vaccinating those most likely to succumb. It's an utterly hearltless policy - not because people will die as a result of it directly of the disease, but more people will suffer because of the damage to the economy of choosing the course that leads to longest period of restrictions - indirect deaths because hospitals stuffed to the gunnels, the consequences of poverty as the economic damage worsens the longer restrictions are in place, and the indirect deaths from suspension of screening and general reluctance to seek medical attention during pandemic.

I don’t understand why we’re prioritising nursing/ residential home patients. If the staff were immunised and the patients aren’t allowed visitors anyway there is no reason they should catch COVID.

But staff can still pass Covid on even if they have been immunised. How difficult can it be to understand this?

Me too OP. It's a disgrace. First person to be vaccinated in our area was 102. 100 and fucking 2! My aunt is ecv, will die if she gets it and been housebound and sheilding since march, she's 61 ffs. A friend has 2 ecv dcs, she can't acces it. Schoolteachers can't get it, dsis is a carer, she can't get it until we have done those over 80.

They are doing thr over 80s first to keep the death figures low, nothing to do with protecting the NHS because without being fucking awful, if my relative at 80+ became ill with covid I wouldn't want anything other than basic oxygen and palliative care. Cos 80+ is a good bloody innings and what happens once they recover? Straight to a carehome to die in a few months time.

My dcs have lost so much, dh is vulnerable and worked throughout the pandemic and the government is proud it's vaccine is getting into the arms of people who tbh, should be supported to effectively sheild.

I can only hope that the rollout goes as planned. To be fair, they aren't doing too bad a job, 1.2 million so far I think with an unstable vaccine. They've dropped the second jab as well for now which is the right thing to do. I am just praying that by this time next month they have done what they say they will do.

MUMSNET BINGO

What do I win?

Lets face it, people voted for this, kept voting for this and then voted for this again for ten fucking years.

Why the fuck are people thinking that the government are going to do anything different to the way they have treated vulnerable people, teachers and the NHS any differenlty .

The concern I have about vaccinating the elderly population is that they seem to think it will give them the ability to swan round acting like the pandemic over. The cruise ship boards are full of the over 60s no jab no cruise brigade, be back to normal by summer etc. But with no evidence the jabs will stop the spread just stop people getting ill the people who have had the jab are under a moral responsibility to keep following guidelines and I think there should be mandatory random testing of people who have had the jab until everyone has been offered it.

Unfortunately the attitude of many will be that they are ok no sod everyone else.

Apart from being the right thing to do to vaccinate the most vulnerable people first it is also a huge benefit to the rest of us as keeping the elderly and vulnerable safe leaves hospital beds for the rest of us so if we have an emergency we can get access to a hospital.

The vaccines is not to have a life back , it doesn’t prevent transmission so how vaccinating me (36 yo white woman with no health conditions) that if I caught COVID would be most likely mild no need a bed nor even a seeing a gp help?

People keep saying this end it isn’t correct.

We don’t know yet whether vaccines will prevent transmission. That’s impossible to know before they’re rolled out widely and the data is available. Lots of scientists expect that they will reduce transmission but it’s too early to know yet.

The JCVI order is right. The NHS is about to be utterly swamped and we need to vaccinate the people most likely to end up in hospital. That’s older people and people with certain conditions.

@Sobeyondthehills

MUMSNET BINGO

What do I win?

Lets face it, people voted for this, kept voting for this and then voted for this again for ten fucking years.

Why the fuck are people thinking that the government are going to do anything different to the way they have treated vulnerable people, teachers and the NHS any differenlty .

Again other parts of the world are vaccinating the same people ... the old folks../ can’t we stop blaming the government for this? It’s not a political thing !

@longtimemarried

I am one of the "old folk" and would happily give up my vaccination to someone much younger and who helps keep the economy going.

Me too! I'm mid fifties and would happily give my one away to a working age younger person.

no the over 60s are peaking now with the virus

Hang on a minute what age are people saying are 'old folk'?

@PurpleDaisies

The vaccines is not to have a life back , it doesn’t prevent transmission so how vaccinating me (36 yo white woman with no health conditions) that if I caught COVID would be most likely mild no need a bed nor even a seeing a gp help?

People keep saying this end it isn’t correct.

We don’t know yet whether vaccines will prevent transmission. That’s impossible to know before they’re rolled out widely and the data is available. Lots of scientists expect that they will reduce transmission but it’s too early to know yet.

The JCVI order is right. The NHS is about to be utterly swamped and we need to vaccinate the people most likely to end up in hospital. That’s older people and people with certain conditions.

Ok I might die I don’t know. I might avoid transmission I don’t know ... but in between my neighbour if she caught it (96) would most likely need a bed. For weeks ... and maybe die. With rhe vaccination .. she’d probably stay at home

There is a table here: c8930375-0dbb-4319-ae2f-025f70d4b441.filesusr.com/ugd/ab45f7_a40832c6069842e6af33fcf2b06611bf.pdf that shows that you would need to vaccinate 47,000 people in the 'under 50, no health conditions' group to save 1 life. Vs 20 vaccinations in the care homes to save 1 life. As people have said, this is about stopping the NHS from being overwhelmed, not from making people that have little to no risk of even being unwell from feeling 'unsafe' when they leave their house.
This will continue until the hospitals can function somewhat normally again. THAT is the priority.

"if my relative at 80+ became ill with covid I wouldn't want anything other than basic oxygen and palliative care"

That's pretty much why the hospitals are full - many on oxygen and little/no other therapy

The straight choice is:

A) vaccinate by clinical priority, take pressure off NHS asap, start releasing restrictions
B) vaccinate those who are already low risk, confirming them as low risk, continue with the rates as they are now, and the restrictions as now. Schools will not be able move from online to on site until wider community transmission is brought under control.

There's always been a clear logic to the vaccination priority - to stop people dieing and getting seriously ill, which is not only humane but also takes pressure off the NHS. Its also the fairest way of doing it (in terms of not leaving people out) as the information that the NHS has about you is your age and whether you are clinically vulnerable or not. If you change the order, by adding all teachers (regardless of age and vulnerability) to the priority list - and presumably fairly high up the list - then there's a risk that the NHS will continue to be overwhelmed for longer and we'll all remain in lockdown for longer.

They are doing thr over 80s first to keep the death figures low, nothing to do with protecting the NHS because without being fucking awful,...

No don't bother explaining. You've said enough

You're saying that it doesn't matter if our elderly could not receive palliative care? That's what you're suggesting. That if the NHS is overwhelmed with elderly sick or dying, that those elderly and dying have no right to any treatment at all? That they must die ALONE !!! Without any care at all. No ambulance, no oxygen, no pain relief

What you're suggesting is fucking vile

The big problem we have in this country is the NHS breaking.

Remember: the NHS being overwhelmed means that your child falling over and breaking an arm becomes a huge, major life-changing event for your child. Which is a thing we haven't seen since the NHS came into our lives. Lucky us.

The NHS is being stretched because those who react adversely to coronavirus are in hospital.

That is why the vaccine goes to them first.

The numbers in hospital will be down by the end of this month. Things will be calmer.

It's not long to wait.

(I'm actually a bit depressed about this squawking about being 'more entitled' to the vaccine than 'X' group. It's not something for the Entitlement Olympics. It's about getting the whole of the U.K. through this.)

@BathFullOfEels

I think it should be front line NHS workers and care home workers, then teachers and schools staff so the kids can return, then all key workers and shielding, all working age people so the country can work again, then 60+.

Right,again:it doesn't necessarily stop transmission,it give high protection against hospitalisation,and near total against death. The lockdown is because NHS is nearly overwhelmed. If we do the first nine groups that takes out the vast, VAST majority of deaths and hospitalisations out if the system. Even the first four groups are, I believe, the majority of deaths and hospitalisations. This means NHS can cope,and do more of their usual job:THEN THEY CAN LIFT RESTRICTIONS.

Also the crap being talked on here about vaccinating teachers so schools can reopen - that's NOT why schools are closed, it's about community transmission in general. And agree that the loathing on here for anyone basically older than the poster is mind-blowing.
The Govt have fucked lots of this up badly which is why we are where we are now. But vaccinating low risk people isn't going to help get us out of this mess right now.

@Ihatefish What rubbish! This most certainly is not the case with the over 60's. My 81 year old mother just wants to be able to go to the local shop if she needs to - still wearing a mask and SD, without worrying it could kill her. She's never been on a bloody cruise her life. I will be 60 this year and I work full time and believe it or not I am still fit and able and also never been in a cruise in my life. What a horrible post.

FFS The comment about 'seeing pensioners swanning off on holiday' is precisely the kind of resentful, stupid social media comment that powered the mad toxicity of Brexit.

Can't we call time in this kind of 'Switch your brain off & just hate other people' politics now?

Well to be fair to the government they have been very fast at getting vaccines by spreading their bets on a number of companies and I don't think Boris Johnson and Dominic Raab scratched their heads together and came up with the vaccination plan, they did use experts to construct it.

Vaccinating older and at risk is the quickest way to get hospital admissions and covid deaths down. Once that has been done and NHS has capacity then they can scratch their heads and decide on the next order. I'm 50 healthy with no underlying conditions and would happily give up my vaccination to a teacher for example, if it gets schools back any earlier.

@the80sweregreat

The working population should get the vaccine first. Makes sense to me but I'm sure someone will come along and say I'm wrong!

I agree. NHS / care workers and teachers first, then vulnerable working age people. My dh is at risk with severe asthma but he is still the main breadwinner and cannot do his job effectively from home. He has barely done anything more than walk the dogs since march. To be honest I would rather he be vaccinated before my 83 year old dad who does nothing more than go for a walk in normal times, he isn't very sociable. Obviously I want them both to be vaccinated but my dad is ordinarily very isolated by choice.

The JVCI doctors scientists medical professionals all agree with the priority list nothing at all to do with political views
Yet some think they have more experience and knowledge of how this should be done