I’m just angry now

[BathFullOfEels]

They knew a vaccine would be the only way of getting us out of this mess. The country has already been locked down twice. Why, why, why didn’t they use this time to set up the logistics of distributing and administering these vaccines?

Why, why, why are the government allowed to decide who to prioritise to receive these vaccines when they were always going to distribute in a way that benefits them. Surely any government with an ounce of realism would be self aware enough to realise that they would make this vaccine distribution a political decision and instead allow the decision to be made by an independent third party who can distribute it in a way that would allow the country to get back to work. Instead it’s likely that months and months down the line we’ll all be forced to go back to work despite still be unprotected.

I have visions of pensioners being able to swan off on holiday over the summer while the workers of the country will still be unable to.

It’s an absolute fucking farce. Watching that press conference last night just finally made it snap for me - they genuinely don’t know what they’re doing at all

Why is it that seemingly well educated people seem unable to think this through. The hospitals are full of mainly older and vulnerable people who are blocking the nhs from being able to serve the rest of the population. Once this group is vaccinated the hospital situation will ease and life can start to go back to normal whilst the rest of the population is vaccinated. We will get back to normal much more quickly this way.
If the working population is vaccinated first and the vaccine doesn't stop transmission only serious illness then the hospitals will be full for longer.
The point of all measures is to relieve the nhs not stop working age people having a relatively minor illness.

You are right to be angry with this government about many things but this isn't one of them.

You can be angry if you like. But it's a health decision not a political one. Be angry with the JCVI. Have a look at their epidemiological data and their mathematical models and maybe drop them an email.

The first thing DM will do after she gets vaccinated is swan off on holiday YANBU

Also the logistics have been being prepared for a long long time. The slowness of distribution is more about supply and storage issues not helped by another u turn from the government about the second dose which means staff having to spend time cancelling and rebooking appointments.

Teachers should get a vaccination. But they shouldn’t be prioritised over those who are at a very high risk of death if they catch it.

Vaccination of teachers doesn’t help schools to be safe as far as community spread is concerned. Vaccinating teacher would just give a veneer of “schools are safe”. They are not - the children will still catch it and spread it to their families and wider community.

Heathly Teachers should be a higher priority than the other healthy general working population. But a young healthy teacher shouldn’t be prioritised over someone who is CEV and hasn’t left their house since March.

I think the current priority list is right.

I also think the thoughts and opinions being displayed currently are a very good display of why euthanasia shouldn’t be legalised, awful as it is for the few who would genuinely benefit.

@Mybrowneyedgal

The aim of the vaccine is to stop the NHS being overwhelmed. If they vaccinate the working population first then the NHS will still be overwhelmed by the older generation and those who are shielding.

This. We are vacinating in the right order, if we reduce pressure on the nhs so we can all access care safely restrictions can begin to be eased. The government is a shitshow but this jcvi guidance is correct.

How would vaccinating they working age population (who are statistically less likely to get serious illness and/or require hospitalisation) alleviate pressure on the NHS (which is the priority)? Particularly given that it’s unclear what impact the vaccine will have on transmission?

I’m not an expert by any means on vaccines. However , many of you have not even bothered to read how does this vaccine work.

The vaccines is not to have a life back , it doesn’t prevent transmission so how vaccinating me (36 yo white woman with no health conditions) that if I caught COVID would be most likely mild no need a bed nor even a seeing a gp help? This vaccine prevents those that would most likely die from dying ... they’d most likely pass it as mild (same way as myself without a vaccine) and release those beds for the rest of illnesses

I don’t like bojo, he’s taken some crap decisions but thanks god he’s in charge instead of some of you. Have you read who are being vaccinated around the world ? I’m Spanish and in Spain the same peoeple (80+ and care workers and health workers) are being vaccinated ... are they doing the same mistake around the world?

Because the biggest risk factor for serious complications (ie needing hospital care/ death) from Covid continues to be age. Most people of working age who get covid recover. It is the right decision from a clinical and moral position but probably not from an economic one.

I don’t know the answer to this OP. But I do hear you. Lots of people have lost livelihoods and locked down for months on end. With no promise of a vaccine til summer 2022.
I understand that the vulnerable need vaccinated first but I just want them to speed up the vaccination process for everyone!

@BathFullOfEels

They knew a vaccine would be the only way of getting us out of this mess. The country has already been locked down twice. Why, why, why didn’t they use this time to set up the logistics of distributing and administering these vaccines?

Why, why, why are the government allowed to decide who to prioritise to receive these vaccines when they were always going to distribute in a way that benefits them. Surely any government with an ounce of realism would be self aware enough to realise that they would make this vaccine distribution a political decision and instead allow the decision to be made by an independent third party who can distribute it in a way that would allow the country to get back to work. Instead it’s likely that months and months down the line we’ll all be forced to go back to work despite still be unprotected.

I have visions of pensioners being able to swan off on holiday over the summer while the workers of the country will still be unable to.

It’s an absolute fucking farce. Watching that press conference last night just finally made it snap for me - they genuinely don’t know what they’re doing at all

The pensioner bit - me too, whilst kids still can’t access a proper education. I’ve always believed that kids are the priority in the population and am actually staggered by the way we’ve treated them.

“I think it should be front line NHS workers and care home workers, then teachers and schools staff so the kids can return, then all key workers and shielding, all working age people so the country can work again, then 60+.”
Good job you’re not overseeing the vaccine programme then isn’t it?
Read @Mumski45’s post which is spot on. At least some people are still capable of demonstrating critical thinking skills with regard to all this.

You say they're so fucking stupid they should vaccinate X first.
Mrs bloggs says they're so fucking stupid they should vaccinate Y first.
Mrs S says it's fucking outrageous that they close the schools
Mrs p says it's so fucking outrageous that they open the schools.

They cannot win.

This x1000

Plus people not understanding that jabbing carehome workers may not protect the residents. There is a genuine reason to believe these jabs won’t prevent transmission in the way that eg the flu jab does.

Teachers aren't being vaccinated because they don't work with a vulnerable group. Vaccinating workers isn't about protecting them, it protects who they work with.

@niceupthedance

The first thing DM will do after she gets vaccinated is swan off on holiday YANBU

So will I! Can’t bloody wait to travel and see my family and book that flight to the Maldives !

I don’t see it as hating older people at all flaxmeadow. They can isolate much more easily than a lot of workers.

You're "angry" because elderly people are getting the vaccine first
These are the people who have worked hard all their lives, the people who built the NHS, the ones lived through, even fought in, a war, were bombed, suffered malnutrition, were evacuated. But you're angry because you "... have visions of pensioners being able to swan off on holiday over the summer while the workers of the country will still be unable to Which you're wrong about anyway
And that's an absolute fucking farce.

It may sound callous but I’d prefer an 80yo to have to spend a year inside than a 5yo. Decisions have to be made and that’s one that I think, honestly, most people would make.

I agree 5 year olds, all primary school children, should be in school, but unfortunately the teachers don't want to be anywhere near them. Take it up with them, but good luck with that because they have no solutions other than "close the schools"

I don’t understand why we’re prioritising nursing/ residential home patients. If the staff were immunised and the patients aren’t allowed visitors anyway there is no reason they should catch COVID.

Because the lockdowns are to prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed. Or would you prefer it if the elderly died at home, gasping for breath, alone and afraid

Give your head a wobble

The vaccine programme is designed to free up beds and staff so that people can have their operations and cancer treatment, get their referrals for medical treatment.
Practically all general nhs care has stopped because covid patients are taking all the resources.
We have to vaccinate according to risk of hospital admission.

Well, we don't have enough vaccine to immunise all at once, it will be arriving in batches. According to Doris we've already vaccinated 1.3 Million people, more than most countries thus far. The vaccine won't stop you spreading it, which means that unless you are likely to be admitted to hospital if you catch it, it will serve no benefit to the number of people needing hospital treatment. Which means immunising teachers and pupils won't allow schools to reopen quicker, quite the opposite.

I know it's tough, but this really is the only solution for the time being. If I were you OP, I'd focus my energy on making the most of a crap situation rather than exhausting yourself fighting against something that can't be changed.

This won't last forever

@Bluegot

I don’t know the answer to this OP. But I do hear you. Lots of people have lost livelihoods and locked down for months on end. With no promise of a vaccine til summer 2022. I understand that the vulnerable need vaccinated first but I just want them to speed up the vaccination process for everyone!

I’m 36 and according to the predictions fully vaccinated by end of 2021. That means both vaccines. Can’t see many people that would be pushed to 2022 tbh

I don’t know the answer to this OP.

It's been explained several times on this thread.

Teachers aren't being vaccinated because they don't work with a vulnerable group. Vaccinating workers isn't about protecting them, it protects who they work with

Exactly

@BathFullOfEels

I think it should be front line NHS workers and care home workers, then teachers and schools staff so the kids can return, then all key workers and shielding, all working age people so the country can work again, then 60+.

Seriously - you are aware that there are lots of people aged 60+ who are working and that that puts them at one of the higher risks - definitely higher than those under 50 and working?! 60+ is "working age".

Much as I agree that Boris has rained down chaos, your alternative is insane, and any independent view of the vaccine prioritisation would, within the broad categories, agree with it. Generally, it is one of the few sensible moves. What you actually mean is that you would like the priorities to prioritise you and yours so that you can get back to normal life, and stuff everyone else. Fortunately, it doesn't work like that.

Seriously bad outcomes as a result of contracting the virus are still vanishingly low for the majority of the population. Including younger workers and children. The most serious outcomes, which are still comparatively small in numbers, are amongst older and vulnerable people who are some increased risk. That increased risk is not just of more serious outcomes including death, but of shutting down the hospital system, as we are already seeing - so lots of younger people can't access any needed medical services because they are overwhelmed. Don't be under any illusion that the priorities are based on compassion. They are based on hard nosed assessments about what will happen if the health service totally fails. Boris doesn't care about 80 year olds any more than you do.

Your comments about older people are frankly ill-informed and offensive.

But why should young, healthy people be prioritised when they’re extremely unlikely to get seriously ill? The whole point of the vaccine, at least initially, is to protect those who are most likely to get seriously ill or die. Why are so many people not in this category so terrified?

Jonathan Van Tam spoke a while ago he said once the vunerable groups have been vaccinated he expects hospital admissions and death rates from covid will drop by 99% this would release the rest of the population
Now I think he knows what he is talking about so let's be more hopeful that he is right
Young people suffering from a mild illness will not force lockdown and the NHS will be able to cope with any that get serious symptoms

@Flaxmeadow

The hatred towards elderly people on here is mind blowing

I have started to notice this. 'Old folk' indeed.