The elephant in the room which is why these measures won’t work.....

[TransplantedScouser]

It’s not shops spreading covid or garden centres or people going on walks........

It’s also largely not down to offices or workplaces or even pubs and restaurants.

Two things :

Schools because children are known infection vectors

And people visiting friends and family

If the government said we’ll keep open the economy but you can’t see your friends and family in private settings then it would probably have a bigger effect

Sadly the latter is impossible to police and you get people saying “why can I go to the pub but not see my mother in her house”

And it’s because friends and family do not socially distance when there is not someone making them. At least in public there are monitors to come extent in the form of external people and staff.

It’s people like my 76 year old mum giving her friend a lift to the supermarket once a week so they are in the same car for over half an hour

Or having my aunt and uncle over to visit - well we sit on separate chairs - yes, in a small living room with the windows closed because you are old and feel cold

Or my friends kids running up to give us a hug when we pass them on the street.

Closing the economy down is a smoke screen because what actually needs to be done is impossible to police

@CakeRattleandRoll and your data is probably more reliable as less people to trace
Op seems to think we could all go to pub and shop as normal as long as we don't go to anyones house?
No it would still spread , people are getting from supermarkets and people have got from a pub/ restaurant lots are getting off their kids and loads getting in hospitals.
We need to stop lots of things not just one or two whilst numbers are this high

@Huigi I agree , people think places of work are all risk free , some wfh and don't have to work or work in a place that may be more strict
The reality is not the same for many of us , im in an office we have screens between us and are just 2 m away bit we breath same air , if two of us get up at same time you breAch the 2m , my dh does a job which requires going in peoples houses , he wears ppe to protect them but it won't be protecting him

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@CakeRattleandRoll and your data is probably more reliable as less people to trace
Op seems to think we could all go to pub and shop as normal as long as we don't go to anyones house?
No it would still spread , people are getting from supermarkets and people have got from a pub/ restaurant lots are getting off their kids and loads getting in hospitals.
We need to stop lots of things not just one or two whilst numbers are this high[/quote]
Yes, I think our track and trace is very reliable, and genomic sequencing can link many cases together. Everyone has to 'sign in' either by scanning phone or on sheet of paper when going to restaurant/cafe, gym, cinema, etc, with time, date, contact details. Do you have similar?

The closest Australia has got to the current UK situation was in Melbourne last July, when they were recording upwards of 700 daily cases. They had to endure two months of very strict lockdown, including needing special permit to travel outside the city. But the Victorian state government stuck with it until they had almost no cases. Reward was over two months with zero new cases (except international arrivals in hotel quarantine).

So their lockdown definitely worked. But I don't know if it would be possible to implement similar in UK. Although seems to have worked in France?

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles:

"That's why we're not allowed to mix households with elephants, I suppose."

Ha ha, loving your work @TwoLeftSocksWithHoles

I agree OP, some people just keep breaking the rules by mixing inside their homes and seem to bury their heads in the sand. Some of them might find it's not just their heads buried, the way things are going. I guess you can't legislate against stupid. So, just keep yourself and your family as safe as you can, because it's not worth battling with everyone you know who is breaking the rules.

And people take their masks off when sitting down for a drink in a cafe, similar to how they do at home.

The main problem isn't even drinking the tea or coffee. It´s that people take off masks as soon as they sit down, and then chat for ages without even drinking anything and with masks off.

So sick of reading people blaming people for spreading a microscopic virus. Aim your anger at the government for failing to adequately prepare the health service for what was inevitably going to be a brutal winter respiratory season.

No government can prepare enough beds or train enough people to care for the many thousands of covid patients that will inevitably fill hospitals on top of the usual occupancy.

Yes, it is people spreading it by not being careful enough.
Yes, do blame the people who don't follow rules or common sense for needing endless restrictions and lockdown.
Also blame the government for mixed messages and very late and wishy washy measures until the situation is sufficiently out of control to need lockdowns.

The elephant in the room is that any strong public health policy needs public trust.

Very much this.
When you have leaders that don't take the virus, the disease, the measures or the risk seriously, how can the population in general?

@TransplantedScouser There is also ppl who cant afford to self isolate.

What about airports. Why does #protecttheNHS not apply to the rich?

@Gwenhwyfar

"But retail is rife with it too"

Is it? Evidence of that? Not many people catch it in shops, probably because they're moving around and not staying there long.

oh wow!! 'Retail' consists of just customers does it?

what about the STAFF??

and then denied them any visitors

apart from TV crews.

No surprise to me it's not working. For most of the reasons listed above.

Site your sources.

*cite

We should all have been given personalised zorbs, and no one should be admitted to hospitals as they are a major infection pathway.

There is no place in particular it’s anywhere and everywhere, from the petrol station pump, the Tesco check out, your gp, your child going to the park or your child being at school it’s everywhere.

@TransplantedScouser

It’s not shops spreading covid or garden centres or people going on walks........

It’s also largely not down to offices or workplaces or even pubs and restaurants.

Two things :

Schools because children are known infection vectors

And people visiting friends and family

If the government said we’ll keep open the economy but you can’t see your friends and family in private settings then it would probably have a bigger effect

Sadly the latter is impossible to police and you get people saying “why can I go to the pub but not see my mother in her house”

And it’s because friends and family do not socially distance when there is not someone making them. At least in public there are monitors to come extent in the form of external people and staff.

It’s people like my 76 year old mum giving her friend a lift to the supermarket once a week so they are in the same car for over half an hour

Or having my aunt and uncle over to visit - well we sit on separate chairs - yes, in a small living room with the windows closed because you are old and feel cold

Or my friends kids running up to give us a hug when we pass them on the street.

Closing the economy down is a smoke screen because what actually needs to be done is impossible to police

I think you’re right op.

I do think hospitals, care homes and some other workplaces too.

But we don’t know for sure as no one seems keen to share this data.

I do feel multigenerational mixing is huge though and so many people I know are still doing it despite lockdown.

Public health now reckon Xmas day mixing is directly responsible for 130,000 new cases

www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/expert-says-christmas-day-sparked-4859329

[quote HalfShrunkMoreToGo]Public health now reckon Xmas day mixing is directly responsible for 130,000 new cases

www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/expert-says-christmas-day-sparked-4859329[/quote]
Anyone with half a brain cell knew that Xmas socialising/mixing would cause a huge increase in infections. People who did it have only themselves to blame if they are now suffering from the lockdown.

[quote HalfShrunkMoreToGo]Public health now reckon Xmas day mixing is directly responsible for 130,000 new cases

www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/expert-says-christmas-day-sparked-4859329[/quote]
Gosh!

None of us saw that coming, did we?

@Lweji

The elephant in the room is that any strong public health policy needs public trust.

Very much this.
When you have leaders that don't take the virus, the disease, the measures or the risk seriously, how can the population in general?

Exactly!

When MPs and their families, and government ministers ignore the tules with impunity, then other people think either that it isn't as bad as is claimed, or "Stuff this! If they do it, I'm doing it".

The latter isn't a mature attitude, but sadly is the automatic response of many people.

Anyone with half a brain cell knew that Xmas socialising/mixing would cause a huge increase in infections. People who did it have only themselves to blame if they are now suffering from the lockdown.

The problem being that everyone else it too. (and not only in the UK)

Don't even understand this question/rant. We are in lockdown and all those things are banned anyway.

The western societies are not compliant hence need heavier tools to curb the virus. Eastern societies do what they are told and enjoy the benefits (on this occasion). See the observations made about the Japanese handling of the pandemic in the Economist and very very little deaths from the virus despite having the biggest of oldest populations (they are also healthier because of their diet)

https://www.economist.com/asia/2020/12/12/the-japanese-authorities-understood-covid-19-better-than-most

Also, another country doing really well not with the outbreak but with the vaccination roll out - Israel. Because of their military discipline and huge investment in tech at government level/ clever procurement - they already vaccinated beyond 15% of their population. And UK? Erm....1.3M ~2% of the population. I thought we were world leading

@TheKeatingFive

Do they not realise how low numbers got in the summer?

If you look at Sweden’s data, their cases dropped significantly in the summer also, with no lockdown.

Seasonality is a key factor in this virus.

It's not, look at India and South Africa, or Latin America....

@EeeehElsie

How do those who've caught it know where they've caught it? Presumably they've been places other than the pub or work/had deliveries etc. How can you be so certain?

Exactly!! People astound me ! How do they know exactly where they got it ?? I too have been sticking to the rules religiously . So frustrating. Some v selfish people about . Everyone's just tweaking it for themselves , even if it's a little bit . It's got to stop.