There is nothing in my children’s lives

[Howdydooo]

It’s all been taken away again.

I know it’s a pandemic. I know it’s temporary (but don’t know how temporary).

Screens are no substitute for friends.

They will not be fooled again by home structure and schooling. They have nowhere to go, no one to see and nowhere to go. And they know how long it went on for last time.

Hear me out but I watched Contagion on Netflix and it made me feel better 😝

Our children have been denied the opportunity to respond to the everyday challenges of life. We have even denied our children the opportunity to even do sport, a classic place where we provide challenge for them. I'm afraid going for a walk with your parents and baking a cake, although they are very nice, do not challenge someone to do something outside their comfort zone and will not help them develop a good attitude to life

How many people, adults, though, are struggling with this right now? A lot according to mumsnet. Being able to keep yourself mentally as stable as you can (which is hard and not entirely in your control), find enjoyment in boring things, and get on with people you haven't chosen (your family!) are all life skills too. You don't need to travel round India, or compete in sport, to find life's challenges- this IS one of life's challenges for us, as we are used to being far less constrained, and far more free to buy and do what we like.

I've taught lots of young people over this pandemic already and I've been impressed with how much some of them have cracked on with it- even students in isolation in tiny rooms, again and again. Many said to me it's boring, but I got a lot of work done! The vast majority of my students might not be very happy, but they have done their work and handed it in, and the few that haven't are being supported the best we can (although I do feel the university could have better prepared by having more investment in wellbeing services, ours are quite good but they are really straining now).

I'm not trying to say it's all rosy, and if you have a child/teen at home with mental health issues, it's a nightmare, frankly, but that doesn't mean every single child is suffering deeply by having to be contained a bit, because they are not.

[quote hamstersarse]@Lalliella

Attituse is everything, I agree. However the problem with that mantra in this situation is that children are being denied the opportunity to fully develop a resilient attitude.

The talk you went to was by someone who was attempting to do something super challenging, to develop their resilience.

Our children have been denied the opportunity to respond to the everyday challenges of life. We have even denied our children the opportunity to even do sport, a classic place where we provide challenge for them.

I'm afraid going for a walk with your parents and baking a cake, although they are very nice, do not challenge someone to do something outside their comfort zone and will not help them develop a good attitude to life[/quote]
You spectacularly miss the point, Hamstersarse — lockdown is the kind of challenging event that will teach children resilience if their parents model resilience for them. That's how they learn to choose their attitude and that's how you strengthen their psychological survival skills. Baking a cake together and bonding and learning is of course about developing a good attitude. Taking a shitty situation and making the best of it be thinking creatively and doing something constructive (like baking or making or doing a Duolingo course or writing a novel or a poem or reading about something that interests you or whatever) is a fundamental lesson on how to get through the horrid bits of life.

@Apollo3

Children will not get stronger by having no challenge in their lives, it is just a fact

Then you should be delighted they are living through a great challenge. Make your fucking mind up.

There is no challenge for a child in playing with parents, having everything done for them in their safe little houses. A 7 year old is not interested in the 'greater good' challenge that you are. Do you even have children?

What's the alternative?

Our children have been denied the opportunity to respond to the everyday challenges of life. We have even denied our children the opportunity to even do sport, a classic place where we provide challenge for them. I'm afraid going for a walk with your parents and baking a cake, although they are very nice, do not challenge someone to do something outside their comfort zone and will not help them develop a good attitude to life

What a load of tosh! Sorry but providing a feeling of safety by going for a walk with your parents or baking a cake is good enough for now. My mum was a child in the blitz. She really wasn't worried about 'a challenge' - staying alive was challenge enough. Being with her family, knowing they were safe and building the memories of a loving home kept her going. But she was one of the people we now look back on and say 'oh, those older people, they've been through it. Look at their attitude - Dunkirk spirit' and all that. Most of them just survived - and that's OK! They were in a war. Our kids are in a pandemic - baking a cake is absolutely fine.

The resilience and challenge can come when this is over. For now our kids need to feel safe, cared for and cherished. My son will have all the challenges he can get in a month or two. For now a snuggle up with mum or dad whilst watching a film is just fine.

@shedbuilder

Thanks for your insight, but I think you "spectacularly miss the point" about child development. Young children are not interested in the wider societal problems, it is not on their radar, it never was and really doesn't need to be now - you might like it and relish this challenge but it is not something that will bring development for a child. They may benefit from some good bonding, but that is only part of the picture. They develop by the everyday things they usually get to do.

You have said that they are developing " psychological survival skills". I would beg to differ. You may be, but they are not.

In the UK we have produced and rolled out a vaccine in ONE YEAR.

By Feb all things going well most of our vulnerable people will have had it, less than a year from the first lockdown which began on 23 March 2020.

That is bloody brilliant.
It is bloody brilliant. It is down to sheer hard work and expertise and Govt providing them with all the finance they need and people volunteering for the trials. Very well done to everyone involved in this truly amazing achievement.

@LondonJax

Have an 'if I won the lottery I'd buy that house' type walk around the 'posher' parts of your town or village.

A good game but it irritates me because I get jealous of all the rich people with nice big fucking houses that I'll never afford.

See who can spot the most drain covers

This is more at my level.

I'd like to know how this is any good for the 16 year old dd of my friend. She's not hugely academic, was doing a practical, vocational btec but will now, yet again. be stuck inside the house on her own for hours on end, not able to see any friends, whilst her single parent mum works long hours in a care home for mentally ill adults.

For now our kids need to feel safe, cared for and cherished

I am sorry, but this is such a naive way to view this. And I think people on here are saying this to comfort their own anxieties, not thinking about what is best for their children.

Children need excitement, challenge and a bit of danger to develop.

@Comefromaway

I'd like to know how this is any good for the 16 year old dd of my friend. She's not hugely academic, was doing a practical, vocational btec but will now, yet again. be stuck inside the house on her own for hours on end, not able to see any friends, whilst her single parent mum works long hours in a care home for mentally ill adults.

Well her mum just needs to ‘Think outside the Xbox’ and origami her a giant puddle suit so she can go and jump in puddles and explore the great outdoors, obviously.

@Lindtballsrock

All you can do is keep trying to focus on the positives. No one can argue this is good for children...it just isn’t. But the children aren’t hiding in bunkers/basements from bombs and having their food rationed..as children did in this country a few generations ago, and as children still are in some other countries. If your children are safe, warm, loved and well fed then they are still doing pretty well comparatively and their life chances are still going to be better than many others despite the pandemic and school closures. There is no dressing this up as being a great time...it is not a great time and it’s just not possible to keep everything normal for children at the moment. But all you can do is try to role model positivity and resilience for them, and access as much support/help as feasibly possible to get through this. It will come to an end in a few months, we just have to get through it day by day until then.

Exactly It s rubbish but as parent you have to listen and say yes it s rubbish ..but model how to get through ..find something positive to get thru the day and look ahead So you can look back in 6 or 12 months and say we got thru this Exercise eat well read Music

Children need excitement, challenge and a bit of danger to develop.

So go out climb a tree

hopingforonlychild

I was 11 during the SARS pandemic in a country which had to shut schools. I know its nothing compared to now, but I don't really remember that time of my life really well. And it was a year before major end of primary school exams. I am 28 this year.

I hope your kids would be similar.

Are you talking about the two week closures in asia in 2093-2004? Hardly the same as this shambles now. They didn’t keep shutting and opening and ruining everything. And I’m older than you and remember a very different scenario. Don’t compare them

This piece by the Lancet does outline the issues with young people not having sufficient social interaction. Young people and children are not adults - they are growing and developing and that stage is critical - the impact on you is not the same as on a child. A walk may relieve you, but are you absolutely sure that is the same for a child?

As I have said, it isn't entirely obvious that any damage is reversible, it is a basic human need for development and imo we are not taking it seriously enough

www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(20)30186-3/fulltext

Look at the things you CAN DO, and take the focus away from the things you can't do.
You can still go out, you can cook together, take an online tour in a museum, read & discuss a book together, ...

Feeling it today op.

It's very overwhelming being your everything for your dc, 24/7.

Feeling very down today too, the dc seem to be ok. Ages 11, 8 and 3. We've had most of our birthdays in lockdown last year and anticipate the same for the next two birthdays at least.

Dh has gone to work as usual. Just feeling very very low.

@hamstersarse so what your basically saying is children will be absolutely fine baking cakes with their mum?

They will get social challenge in a couple of months. They have had social challenge for the last 6 months. This is a short period of their life, which many children have gone through in the past and turned out okay. You are completely over exaggerating and over dramatising the situation to make your point seem more valid

My children are getting lots of social challenges. The other day, playing Among Us, they voted off another friend for being suss. Said friends then went off in a huff because they were picking on her. They had to resolve this breakdown and make friends again.
Later, they were all cooperating to design, make and test a new Piggy map on roblox. I was really impressed by the team work and problem resolution going on.
Today, for the first time, I have allowed my daughter to go and call for a friend so that they can take the friend’s dog for a walk. She has been given her own key to do this and is very proud. She’s only ever been allowed out on the front before.
Sure, it’s not the same opportunities as before, but she’s not in jail in solitary confinement.

Are you actually all baking, or is it just a catch-all metaphor for wholesome activities? Not a goady question, I just cannot imagine finding spare 2+ hours in a day for it (including cleaning, washing up etc). I am not a bad cook, but baking just feels so much effort for so little reward.

Of course the children may well be damaged — because they have a parent who is convinced they'll be damaged and will see the rest of their lives through the Covid-damaged-my-child filter.

We're baking, we find cake very life affirming and we have little interest in crafting. But I'm not sure it matters much what you do - exercise, board games, watching a film together, crafts, whatever floats your boat. It's just an activity that gives us a change to talk and reconnect after a day sat at our separate screens.

We’re baking but occasionally. Have ingredients for bread at home and you never need to worry if you have idle children at hand. Fresh bread til you can be arsed to go to the shops.
Dd loves to bake cakes and teen ds makes waffles.
Again, once a week activity if that. Thank goodness for daily exercise.

[quote DishedUp]@hamstersarse so what your basically saying is children will be absolutely fine baking cakes with their mum?

They will get social challenge in a couple of months. They have had social challenge for the last 6 months. This is a short period of their life, which many children have gone through in the past and turned out okay. You are completely over exaggerating and over dramatising the situation to make your point seem more valid[/quote]
It’s up to you what you think, even 6 months could be a problem, but it’s not known via human experiments because we obviously can’t conduct those experiments. Well, usually, anyway.

Because of what I do, I know this research area well and I am not convinced that this does not entail potential harm for children.

I’m an each to their own type of person, and you’ll know your children best so it’s up to you whether you pay attention to it or not.

However, there are many children in households who do not have this ‘best we can do’ parenting that many on here are describing. I think this is a legitimate concern and widens the inequality gap even further for these children, and I find that very sad and possibly unforgivable