Why is the whole country in lockdown?

[nevereverplease]

Millions of children are having their education interrupted severely, suffering mental health problems and people are losing their businesses and livelihoods for a disease unlikely to affect them.

Why can it not be that instead, vulnerable people shield (which most are doing anyway) instead of everyone?

People I’m sure will come with the counter argument to say it’s not fair leaving people on their own etc. They could still have a support bubble and it would mean that the whole country isn’t suffering severely as a result.

Is it not logical to have fewer people be locked down as opposed to everyone? Surely that’s just basic logic. I would rather no one suffer from this horrible disease but at the moment it feels like it's 'everyone suffer' because that's the 'fair' way to do it.

Could we not have used the money from furlough and all the other grants to fund the vulnerable whilst shielding.

I say this because 388 people have died aged under 60 with no underlying health conditions. If we go by 34% mortality rate of people admitted to ICU then we are talking about 1141 people under 60 with no underlying health issues needing ICU treatment Since March.

@WithTheJonses I'm 100000% with you OP. Peoples mental health, businesses and education are suffering far more than Covid could ever do to the non vulnerable so you are happy for the vulnerable to die so business and education are not affected and people’s mental health isn’t affected. That’s a fair trade off for you is it?

So the point is locking down only defers the spread.

We need to slow the spread so the nhs can cope.

We have vaccines now. Why should people who can be vaccinated in a month or two need to die from covid now?

Look at the amount of cars on the roads, motorways. Some with whole families in them. I don’t believe they are all essential journeys. Nor do I believe they are all key workers. In theory the roads should be relatively quiet. They are not. People are still going on jolly visits to see family’s.
Even the Boris’ advisor Dominic Cummings didn’t follow the rules in the early days of all this.

Will someone tell me why when we locked down and followed the rules, airplanes of people could still travel to Gatwick, pass through unchecked and get straight onto a bus or train?..
Why were takeaways still open? You couldn’t go to a pub but could queue outside a kebab shop ? And pubs could still serve takeaway beers?
And why were we allowed to go outside for exercise still? Surely keeping everyone indoors would have lowered the risks?
I’m just playing devils advocate here BTW...

Because the risk outdoors is minuscule.

**Because the risk outdoors is minuscule.

Ok but what about the other points? People flying into the UK willy nilly without having any covid checks done for example?

I agree with you OP.

The vulnerable are already shielding. It won't make a difference to them if the rest of the population get back to normal life. Nothing will change for them. It's not about 'locking them away' - we r all locked away already. Allowing some people to get unlocked and back to.life is surely only a good thing? I have a close family member shielding. She's miserable, but doesn't want everyone else to suffer with her and understands it would benefit the country for the young, fit and able to get back to work to get the economy going again and get the countries spirits lifted.

If I was to get knocked over by a bus and end up in hospital for a few weeks/months, I wouldn't want everyone else to join me to make it 'fair' and so I didn't feel lonely. I'd want everyone else to carry on living their life to keep the economy going and keep them happy, and know that when I come out of hospital the world is still ticking over and people haven't all killed themselves or gone into deep depression or lost their homes and livelihoods.

Same goes for covid.

Surely it's better to shield the vulnerable, old and at risk and encourage all the others to get the country back on its feet so the vulnerable have a country to actually live in once they are vaccinated and can mix again, rather than all.of us coming out of lockdown to an economic hell hole disaster

The more the virus spreads, the more opportunity it has to mutate. That mutation could lead to something more deadly, or more contagious or something that makes the vaccines ineffective.

FFS how many threads on this subject?
Every time people eloquently explain why you cannot shield the vulnerable as they need health care etc etc.
Also have you got a clue what an underlying condition is Op?
Well it can be anything from mild asthma to dermatitis or Mental Health issues. Other with the very random issues is by far the biggest.

@CoffeeTimeAtLast The vulnerable are already shielding.
No they aren't. Clinically Vulnerable people including teachers aren't expected to WFH or shield. Only Extremely Clinically Vulnerable people are advised to shield. And if a person shares a household with an ECV person they have to go to school, work etc.

@CoffeeTimeAtLast my ECV has been working from home keeping his employers business going at a high level throughout the pandemic. He has not left the house bar medical appointments. Medical appointments at a surgery which has just had a COVID outbreak.
He is doing everything possible to protect himself..
I am doing what I can to protect him but I have to work and our dds have to attend education sites.
It is not as simple as that.
I haven't even mentioned how overrun the NHS would be if everything opened up or the impact of Long COVID on our workforce.

[quote PastMyBestBeforeDate]**@CoffeeTimeAtLast* The vulnerable are already shielding.*
No they aren't. Clinically Vulnerable people including teachers aren't expected to WFH or shield. Only Extremely Clinically Vulnerable people are advised to shield. And if a person shares a household with an ECV person they have to go to school, work etc.[/quote]
And people who are shielding are getting covid from their carers, nurses, delivery drivers, etc., in hospitals, care homes and their own homes. Shielding isn't guaranteed as they still come into contact with other people.

These threads are so tedious. A weary to those of you still taking the time to try to explain.

to the OP.

Well yes @Kazzyhoward. I'm well aware of that as an ECV person with DC in school, hospital appointments etc.

Ok, I've read all the thread again and all.points noted. I was a bit hasty in my opinion born from stress at how horrible.and how long all this is, and havING read something recently.on the Barrington proposal. Apologies. Mind changed. (Sorry I was one of the covidiots! I'm a bit more enlightened now. Apologies. (Helped me understand to post though.))

I'm diabetic. That's my underlying condition. So I would be counted in the underlying condition stats. I'm not in the shielding category though.

So I'm at work, in a secondary school.
My Dd is at primary school.
Dh is at work, traveling there on public transport.

Because all of those things are true, I can't shield myself. I have to have contact with other people, because I'll lose my job if I don't.

My parents are vulnerable. They are doing their best to shield, and can count on one hand the number of times they've left their house since March (hospital appointments mostly). They still need contact with the outside world because they need deliveries from the supermarket, and post, etc. Luckily they aren't frail, and don't need carers in, but a lot of elderly/vulnerable people do need outside carers. Are the carers supposed to shield as well? But then that would mean the carers family shielding too (to keep the carers covid free)? And then, by the time you've locked down all the vulnerable people (I'm including all people with underlying conditions, because we're the ones who don't count when we die, aren't we?), And all the people caring for vulnerable people, and all the families of vulnerable people and the families of people caring for the vulnerable. By this stage we've pretty much locked down half the country!!

@CoffeeTimeAtLast I hope that's a genuine thing :) It's been long and grim for everyone.

Tier 3 + no lockdown = More cases, tier 4, more deaths, same economic devastation.

Tier 3 + immediate lockdown = Tier 4, same economic devastation

Have you been watching the figures?

Imagine if the announced that everyone apart from X and Y groups can just carry on as normal?

What would the hospitals be like in this sudden surge?

@MsAwesomeDragon as an ECV person I do think the CV have been totally hung out to dry. What is the point of the CV category when they are afforded no concessions?

It’s not a black and white situation where cv people catch it and die and non cv people survive. Non vulnerable people have died , non vulnerable people have needed lengthy hospital stays , previously healthy people have been left with terrible lasting effects.
If non cv people are allowed to go about as normal many will catch it and , yes, they might not die but many will take up a hospital bed and many will be left with health conditions that will need treatment going forward putting even more strain on the NHS in the following months if not years.

Changechangychange

“@GypsyLee Julia is that struck-off nurse, I think”

I thought Julia Hartley-Brewer?

Incredulous that this OP and their totally offensive posts haven't received the ban hammer!

Yes, Julia is Julia Hartley-Brewer.

Yes Op dd 2 has had 9 hours education since December 2019 due to her Mental Health and SEN.
These kids are completely under the radar and no one really gives a toss about their missed education. No work set by school etc etc
Yet everyone is shouting and screaming about the current loss of education and how disastrous it is for their futures and how vital schooling is. Fir MH etc etc
Unless your an other of course and d this is exactly the same attitude as only 388 etc etc.