Why is the whole country in lockdown?

[nevereverplease]

Millions of children are having their education interrupted severely, suffering mental health problems and people are losing their businesses and livelihoods for a disease unlikely to affect them.

Why can it not be that instead, vulnerable people shield (which most are doing anyway) instead of everyone?

People I’m sure will come with the counter argument to say it’s not fair leaving people on their own etc. They could still have a support bubble and it would mean that the whole country isn’t suffering severely as a result.

Is it not logical to have fewer people be locked down as opposed to everyone? Surely that’s just basic logic. I would rather no one suffer from this horrible disease but at the moment it feels like it's 'everyone suffer' because that's the 'fair' way to do it.

Could we not have used the money from furlough and all the other grants to fund the vulnerable whilst shielding.

I say this because 388 people have died aged under 60 with no underlying health conditions. If we go by 34% mortality rate of people admitted to ICU then we are talking about 1141 people under 60 with no underlying health issues needing ICU treatment Since March.

I'm not continuing to engage with some people who invent things I've said and twist them. It's exhausting. I never said wipe away all restrictions for the LAST time.

And then be rude on top of it, I didn't come on here calling anyone stupid or being rude to anyone but somehow people feel the need to be so disrespectful because someone has a different option to them.

Please comment without the rudeness otherwise your posts will be ignored because it's just ridiculous.

One reason why some members of the public are not taking the virus seriously is because of the "cry wolf" effect: the media always exaggerates things to monstrous proportions, and sometimes the government does as well. The more cynical members of the public know that things are being exaggerated, and believe that the more the media bangs on about something, the more likely it is to be exaggerated. Since the government's only method of persuading the public seems to be by scaremongering and confusion, as well as Dominic Cummings not being sacked on the spot, people have lost respect for the government, and some are disobeying the government on principle.

The government need to have a think about the way they're treating the public, and show some fucking respect, if they want respect from the public. This "new more infectious strain" reads like Blair's dodgy dossier on weapons of mass destruction, conveniently timed to scare the plebs into not mixing at Christmas.

I am vulnerable. If i die, I would be an 'under 60 with an underlying condition'. On the other hand, my life expectancy, based on family and taking into account this condition, is still well over 80, so if i were to die, it would be 30+ years 'early'.

I am also a full-time primary teacher, in school from tomorrow, teaching children just like yours.

Don't think that these pesky 'vulnerable' people are disposable without any impact on the services you want to be open.....

Have you ever broken a bone? Or had acne or depression?
They cunt virtly everything as an underlying condition including migraine.
Are you still in that camp?

Lol
Count virtually

[quote nevereverplease]@flowers12 YES, if I had health conditions I would because I would be shielding anyway surely if I'm sticking to the rules??? So what difference would it make[/quote]
Health conditions include high blood pressure, being overweight,pregnancy,smoking. Also what about the increased risk in Bame people that is not related to health conditions.

So we should lock up the sick and not care about the risks to the Bame population or those not aware they are pregnant. The utter selfishness that COVID has shown in people is astounding.

This "new more infectious strain" reads like Blair's dodgy dossier on weapons of mass destruction, conveniently timed to scare the plebs into not mixing at Christmas.

They’ve managed to rope a load of very respected scientists into the conspiracy. Worldwide.

The list of high risk conditions and the list of pre existing conditions reported are not the same lists. Whilst sympathetic to impacts of lockdown, the same impacts are likely if covid is not controlled

@PurpleDaisies

This "new more infectious strain" reads like Blair's dodgy dossier on weapons of mass destruction, conveniently timed to scare the plebs into not mixing at Christmas.

They’ve managed to rope a load of very respected scientists into the conspiracy. Worldwide.

Although The WHO are continuing to advise against repeated lockdowns, and some world renowned virologists such as Sir Hugh Pennington are mostly against them as well. Neil Ferguson is a physicist, not a virologist or medic.

What is really untested is the effect of lockdowns on virus transmission. We don't actually know if they create the ideal breeding ground for more infectious strains as they slow down community transmission, for instance. Lockdowns are a huge, new social and medical experiment.

[quote nevereverplease]@DontBeShelfish why are you here commenting then? [/quote]
Honestly? Because I'm still blown away at how dumb some people can be. You've started a thread that's so audaciously thick I honestly expect you to be outed as a member of government. Multiple posters have pointed out why you're wrong with well-written, intelligent posts, and you're still banging the same old drum. Have a biscuit. Have a bunch of flowers.

Why do people keep posting this "plan". Idiots.

[quote nevereverplease]@User158340 the list is here, eczema is not listed;

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk/whos-at-higher-risk-from-coronavirus/[/quote]
Look, that list isn't exhaustive you know.
My husband doesn't qualify to be on that list.....and yet he has incurable cancer, which means he's not on any "active treatment" which means he's not on the list. He's lost half a lung to his thyroid cancer which impares his breathing, yet again he doesn't qualify to be on the list. But he does have an underlying condition doesn't he? He's now got tumours in his pancreas, liver and chest, but there is NO treatment for it, so he isn't on the list.
He still goes to work.
He doesn't "qualify" to shield.

There are a lot of people like this.

Yeah erm.... I would have agreed but my cousin is a doctor and basically the hospitals are fucked atm as people are on ventilators because they would die without them and they aren’t able to get them off... more ill people coming in and there is still the people from months ago using the ventilators. It sounds really sad and hard. Also residents in care homes are dying even tho they have to have a negative test to leave hospital and carers are even living in the homes. I would actually say we should have had a harsher original lockdown and closed borders etc. It’s easy to say these things but then speak to someone who works in the actual NHS and you will soon see how dire the situation is.

@DontBeShelfish I'm surprised at how disgusting and rude some people can be. With that I mean you.

I'm not sure why you think it acceptable to speak to people like that? I've not offended anyone here or been rude - so how dare you.

@DontBeShelfish
a thread that's so audaciously thick I honestly expect you to be outed as a member of government
I am stealing that for use in RL.

@Hellothere19999 very fair argument, thanks for posting.

I would actually rather agree with stricter measures than the current situation.

This to me, is an all or nothing situation, a half arsed approach is not the way forward.

And that is currently what's happening.

@50but17inside

Yet again despite all the months that have passed you realise from the OP that people simply still don’t understand the basics of the problem.

It makes me feel so frustrated but I really believe this is the government communications team’s fault for simply overestimating the public’s capacity to grasp the knock on effects of this virus.

They needed to make different 5 minute public information films with clear graphics explaining the issues right at the start. They assumed a level of understanding that most people simply don’t have. The lack of basic critical and lateral thought is fairly shocking at this stage in so many people

This, a million times this

So many people on so many threads...

Neil Ferguson is a physicist, not a virologist or medic.
That's nonsense, he is an epidemiologist and professor of mathematical biology, who specialises in the patterns of spread of infectious disease:
www.imperial.ac.uk/people/neil.ferguson

What is really untested is the effect of lockdowns on virus transmission. We don't actually know if they create the ideal breeding ground for more infectious strains as they slow down community transmission, for instance.

Also nonsense. mobile.twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/1345448977601241088

Is there actually a government or nhs list of what constitutes an underlying condition in a registered covid death?

FGS - yet another poster who says “I’m not going to engage”.

People are going to feel strongly one way or the other. If you want a strong debate, then own it - don’t post this and then “not engage”.

I CBA going through points on either side, apart from one thing - it’s getting highly irritating with the whole “only xx amount” without underlying conditions have died. No matter the age bracket, pretty much most of us on here will have what is classed as an underlying condition. I have three, two of which I’m on lifelong medication for (and for which my prescriptions are free of charge, something I realise I am really bloody privileged to have). However, I’m only in my 40’s and would not expect to die of them anytime soon as, you know, they are being managed. My mum, early 70’s has a couple of conditions, again being managed and not expected to result in death anytime soon. So it’s seriously pissing me off with that line being trotted out all the time. If everyone with an underlying condition shielded then I dread to think who would be left to keep the lights on here!

@nevereverplease

I'm not continuing to engage with some people who invent things I've said and twist them. It's exhausting. I never said wipe away all restrictions for the LAST time.

And then be rude on top of it, I didn't come on here calling anyone stupid or being rude to anyone but somehow people feel the need to be so disrespectful because someone has a different option to them.

Please comment without the rudeness otherwise your posts will be ignored because it's just ridiculous.

So what are you advocating then? You’re clear what’s currently in place isn’t working. What would you do? Be clear

@Hellothere19999

Yeah erm.... I would have agreed but my cousin is a doctor and basically the hospitals are fucked atm as people are on ventilators because they would die without them and they aren’t able to get them off... more ill people coming in and there is still the people from months ago using the ventilators. It sounds really sad and hard. Also residents in care homes are dying even tho they have to have a negative test to leave hospital and carers are even living in the homes. I would actually say we should have had a harsher original lockdown and closed borders etc. It’s easy to say these things but then speak to someone who works in the actual NHS and you will soon see how dire the situation is.

Haven’t you heard? All the doctors are lying about that you know...

@Furries I appreciate your comments and it's a fair post you raise.

When I said I'm not engaging I don't think you read my full post. I said I'm not engaging with rude posters.

Do you think it's reasonable to be rude things to someone for expressing an opinion? Because that's what many of the posters here are doing and I find it weird and unnecessary that's all.

Do you think CEV people live alone with no human contact, no contact with things touched by others?

How do you know that the person in front or behind you in the queue in the supermarket isn't shopping for a vulnerable person? Or the person you sit next to on a bus or, in a restaurant?

My family and friends are doing everything possible to shield me, as a CEV person. But they cannot identify you (and those who think like you) in the places they have to go to. You make their efforts much, much more difficult

@nevereverplease I think some of the rudeness comes from a frustration there there are so many of these I’ll informed posts that show quite how many people are a bit hard of thinking

To your credit you have listened and if I understand your last couple of posts have now gone from thinking locking down is unnecessary, to thinking more stronger measures are needed.