All these "bubbles"

[lovelylittlepanda]

So, childcare bubble, support bubble, separate Christmas bubble, changing your bubble, travelling to see your "bubbled" household etc.

All allowed. All have highly technical fine print probably read by very few.

Impact on Covid rates.

Discuss.

Disclaimer: we are in one. Wouldn't want to terminate it obvs.

I would be strongly against stopping support bubbles- I think it was inhuman to keep people effectively in solitary confinement for months with no human contact last time.

However, I would restrict it to people who live alone. It should never have been extended to single parents or families with babies.

Without a doubt, they are contributing to the Covid rates. Same as going to the shops etc. All the things we are still allowed to do can still spread Covid. Just because something is within the guidelines does not mean it is not without risk. But the rules were introduced to relieve pressure on the NHS, not eliminate Covid. We are waaaay past even trying to eliminate it now.

We have a childcare "bubble" with one of my parents and a sibling. If we didn't, I'd have to have my toddler with me whilst working. Did this for 4 months last year. Never again. If we couldn't do it, I'd have to take a significant amount of unpaid leave and then our rent couldn't be paid. Simple as that.

@LoudTree

I would be strongly against stopping support bubbles- I think it was inhuman to keep people effectively in solitary confinement for months with no human contact last time.

However, I would restrict it to people who live alone. It should never have been extended to single parents or families with babies.

@LoudTree

Single parents live alone AND care for children alone. They need support bubbles more than anyone.

Jeees.

@LoudTree

I would be strongly against stopping support bubbles- I think it was inhuman to keep people effectively in solitary confinement for months with no human contact last time.

However, I would restrict it to people who live alone. It should never have been extended to single parents or families with babies.

Yup, wouldn't want it to end either but there seems to be very little discussion of how all these have just sort of expanded.

@LoudTree I take it you aren't a single parent? I'd probably be dead if I hadn't been allowed a support bubble. My children are amazing but they can't provide me with emotional support.

My Mum is genuinely the only person I see other than my dc. I could technically see my Step Dad too but haven't done, other than Christmas Day.

Childcare bubbles and support bubbles should be one and the same. I don’t think you should be able to be both e.g. your daughters childcare bubble and your single friend/relative’s support bubble. One or the other really.

It should never have been extended to single parents or families with babies.

It absolutely should. And no, I'm not a single adult household and I don't have a baby.

@turnthebiglightoff

We have a childcare "bubble" with one of my parents and a sibling. If we didn't, I'd have to have my toddler with me whilst working. Did this for 4 months last year. Never again. If we couldn't do it, I'd have to take a significant amount of unpaid leave and then our rent couldn't be paid. Simple as that.

Yup, agree that I don't want it to end either, but my question was what impact it has had on Covid rates, not what impact does it have on our lives. I think it's beyond doubt that it's very valuable to many.

We have no one to bubble with anyway so just crack on, no option. Two primary school age kids, two parents WFH (not keyworkers).
You do what you have to. But so many childcare and support bubbles seem to link families with school age children, one way or another, so it's hard to see how bubbles aren't contributing to spread, regardless of the benefits they bring. And many people in support bubbles are also people who are at increased risk due to advanced age and health.

There is no place for bubbles.

The virus will spread from one human to another regardless of who they are or why you are in contact with them.

I’m in a support bubble with my DM, I’m a single mum of a 4 year old, 3 year old and 5 month old. If I didn’t have a support bubble I don’t know how I would have coped.

However, I would restrict it to people who live alone. It should never have been extended to single parents

Why is someone who lives alone in need of more support than a single parent with a 1 year old. If the issue is loneliness and human contact a one year old doesn’t really help with that, they aren’t great at conversation or emotional support.
Plus it needs to include people who are the only adult in a house caring for another adult. An elderly couple where one cares for the other for example should be able to have support.

@jerometheturnipking

Childcare bubbles and support bubbles should be one and the same. I don’t think you should be able to be both e.g. your daughters childcare bubble and your single friend/relative’s support bubble. One or the other really.

Interesting, this is what I was getting at, the multiplication factor, if you like. I'm not good at statistics and modelling, but in overall terms, I wonder what the impact has been on rates.

I know many of us don't want the bubbles to end, but anybody have any more scientific thoughts on the impact of all the "bubbling"?

Bubbles are nonsense. It is particularly nonsensical that single parents can effectively be in so called bubbles of several houses (mum, dad, support bubble for each, childcare bubble for each).

To answer your question yes they probably are contributing to the spread. Especially as people stretch the rules of what's allowed. As with everything there will always be people who take the piss and break the rules.

@cherrypie790

There is no place for bubbles.

The virus will spread from one human to another regardless of who they are or why you are in contact with them.

Do not be absurd, there are other things to consider. Without the care my uncle provides to my gran, she’d be more likely to end up in hospital, how would that help anyone? Another elderly person in hospital. Someone would need to take over the care, why is it better that it’s a carer than a family members a bubble?

@StatisticalSense

So you want people who live alone to be forced to have no contact at all with other humans again for months?

That would be cruel and far more of a risk than COVID.

It’s silly tbh. Our childcare bubble is a bubble with a single person household and bubbles with a family with baby under 1. All at separate times however apparently all allowed.

I think it should of only been single people/single parents/disability so still single and childcare/adult care bubbles. Our family member with a baby has their dh at home full time as his off work, they also baby under 1 bubbles with his family because “fairness”.

@Meredithgrey1
The problem is single parents can rarely exclusively bubble with one other household in the way that those actually living alone can. Given that enabling children to see both parents should be prioritised the vast majority of single parents are already effectively in a bubble with another household (the child's other parent) and in many cases several other households (the other parents new partners ex and so on).

It annoys me intensly when people (all of whom I suspect do not live alone) say a support bubble has to be local. Obviously better if it is (as the guidelines say), but the reason is doesn't have to be is because lots of people who live alone can only bubble with family who may live 150 miles away or whatever. They are for emotional support as much as help with the shopping.

I think childcare bubbles are pretty essential to keep people working, no?

I think honestly the problem is ignoring the rules and mixing with a wide variety of people, not bubbles.

And I think bubbles are essential for keeping people functional and thus the economy going, which is vital.

@cherrypie790

There is no place for bubbles.

The virus will spread from one human to another regardless of who they are or why you are in contact with them.

I think this is probably the truth of it, if the goal is to get rates right down. If that's not the goal then I dunno what is!

Many would say the cost to them is too high.

I personally hope it doesn't change, but my niggling feeling about having a childcare bubble is guilt (there, I've said it! I was trying to be objective!).

No one has any specific date to show bubbles are a widespread driver.

Can folk stop trying to find people to blame & think constructively how to support each other instead?

my HH bubbles with one person living alone who I have seen once since the 18th December -- and that was just an outside walk. It's nice for her to know I'm legally available, though.

@cherrypie750

You are being a bit limited in your thinking there. We're in enough trouble economically as it is, people have to be able to function and work, and human beings need at least a bare minimum of contact.

The problem seems to be that SOME people have every kind of bubble and they are not closed.

So as an example.

Person A is a single parent of an 8 month old, they

• have a support bubble with mum 1
• a childcare bubble with sister 1
• and transfer child to Their dad who is Person B

Mum 1 also has a childcare bubble with sister 2

Sister 1 has a support bubble with Friend A

the Dad (person B) has a support bubble with his mum and a childcare bubble with friend B.

That's a minimum of 8 households interconnected without thinking about whether Friend A has other bubbles or Sister 2, let alone whether any of them are also meeting up with a single adult in the park for exercise.

The rules need to look more like the ones they tried to implement for Xmas where if you form a bubble it's closed with a maximum of 3 households becoming connected.