All these "bubbles"

[lovelylittlepanda]

So, childcare bubble, support bubble, separate Christmas bubble, changing your bubble, travelling to see your "bubbled" household etc.

All allowed. All have highly technical fine print probably read by very few.

Impact on Covid rates.

Discuss.

Disclaimer: we are in one. Wouldn't want to terminate it obvs.

Some abuse the whole bubble thing anyway (and don’t understand how they work).

I think the various bubbles are necessary for mental health or essential practical reasons. However, a lot of people are interpreting the rules incredibly wrongly loosely eg. swapping 'support bubbles' week by week or making a bubble of two families with older children.
I think it is about looking at overall contacts with people and having as few connections as possible. Limit the possible infection sources and potential routes for onward transmission.

Most of the support bubble rules are sensible but the blanket one if you have a child under 1 seems unnecessary

If you are a single parent you are covered by that anyway - not sure why everyone with a child under 1 needs a further exemption

The fact is, the less people you mix with, the less chance there is of you catching or spreading this virus

You can try and justify the need for multiple support bubbles for various purposes all you like but it won’t change that fact so bubbles should be as limited as possible

I meant

How can one not believe that in most instances bubbles do increase transmission?

Angel2702 yes and no I think. I know of grandparents in their 70s in childcare bubbles where they look after their grandchildren part of the week and the other part of the week they're in school or private nursery so mixing with loads of kids so actually increasing the risk for the grandparents. All because the parents want to save money. And where the parents are working in secondary schools. And where the childcare is provided alternate days in the grand child's home (when the other parent is working from home and so having tea breaks and eating lunch with the grandparent at least once a week) and also in the grandparent's home. And the same grandparent is also a support bubble for their other adult child who has a child under 1, again providing childcare for that child in the adult child's home.

I see a staggering amount of over 60s on the primary school run too.

None of this is helping. It all increases transmission risk and as Chris Whitty himself pointed out v recently, when we increased individual risk we increase societal risk.

@cherrypie790

There is no place for bubbles.

The virus will spread from one human to another regardless of who they are or why you are in contact with them.

I don’t care particularly if the virus spreads from us to my mum (our support bubble) or vice versa. She was far more likely to die from her suicide attempt when she’d been in her house on her own for 2 months than she is of Covid.

Yeah. They're not bubbles. My son said this to his lecturer in a room of 30 other kids when she said we're all in a bubble: 'Nah. We're in a vector spreading Venn diagram'

@Butterflyfluff

Most of the support bubble rules are sensible but the blanket one if you have a child under 1 seems unnecessary

If you are a single parent you are covered by that anyway - not sure why everyone with a child under 1 needs a further exemption

The fact is, the less people you mix with, the less chance there is of you catching or spreading this virus

You can try and justify the need for multiple support bubbles for various purposes all you like but it won’t change that fact so bubbles should be as limited as possible

I am not a parent and don't know anyone with a child under 1 but even I can see why a parent of a baby would need a support bubble despite having the other parent live with them. Assuming the mum is at home with baby when dad goes out to work.... pre-lockdown they could go to mother & baby groups etc, meet a friend and speak to another adult about their worries that they might not be able to with their OH. They could have had a C-section and not able to do much around the home. Why make life even more difficult for them?

even I can see why a parent of a baby would need a support bubble despite having the other parent live with them.

Why more so than a child over 1?

And why everyone though?

@Butterflyfluff

even I can see why a parent of a baby would need a support bubble despite having the other parent live with them.

Why more so than a child over 1?

And why everyone though?

Because a blanket "if you have a child under 1" rule is easier to understand/manage surely? The rule says you can have a bubble if you need one, not that you have to.

I think they should simplify the rules and allow every household to be in a bubble with one other household. No exceptions. No switching bubbles. Easy to understand and much fairer than the current rules.

You'd vastly increase household mixing, to overcome a few people breaking the existing rules. That's logical.

Why more so than a child over 1?

I have a 1 year old so not entitled to the bubble, but I can see why they’ve made an exception for people with children under 1.
The first year of a child’s life can be really tough. When I had my first, DH worked 12 hour days and we lived nowhere near friends and family. If I hadn’t had my NCT group for support I genuinely don’t think I’d be here today.

Obviously if our sole aim in life is to ‘reduce Covid transmission’ then yeah, support bubbles should be scrapped.
However other things are important too.

Probably unpopular, and just my opinion, no scientific evidence, but I would say they are quite high risk and allow excessive mixing between the at risk age groups (60+) and people who tend to be asymptomatic (children).

I would think they have contributed massively to the spread.

I would say that older single adults (70+) should probably bubble with those in similar circumstances, eg fellow retired friends who aren’t in contact with lots of high risk people.

I would say that childcare bubbles are risky and where possible more after school provision should be made for working parents so they don’t have to rely on grandparents.

@Butterflyfluff

even I can see why a parent of a baby would need a support bubble despite having the other parent live with them.

Why more so than a child over 1?

And why everyone though?

You could say the same about people that live alone being allowed a bubble. Some folks (and I certainly know of them) live a hermit lifestyle and are absolutely fine with the absolute minimum of human contact. And then you have the other end of the spectrum of people living alone that used to have friends round all the time etc, and are really struggling now.

The rule says you can have a bubble if you need one, not that you have to.

True, but isn’t the point of this thread that too many people are saying they need this support bubble for this reason and that support bubble for that reason?

The more reasons, the more people in contact with each other and the more it spreads

No one likes this but getting the virus is shit so you really want to do all you can to avoid it

@Alwaysandforeverhere

It’s silly tbh. Our childcare bubble is a bubble with a single person household and bubbles with a family with baby under 1. All at separate times however apparently all allowed.

I think it should of only been single people/single parents/disability so still single and childcare/adult care bubbles. Our family member with a baby has their dh at home full time as his off work, they also baby under 1 bubbles with his family because “fairness”.

That's actually not allowed. You can be in one support bubble only, so they cannot bubble with a single person and a family with a baby under one as they are both support bubbles. A childcare bubble is different so they can pick one of the support bubbles and also have the childcare bubble, but cannot have both support bubbles.

@Butterflyfluff

The rule says you can have a bubble if you need one, not that you have to.

True, but isn’t the point of this thread that too many people are saying they need this support bubble for this reason and that support bubble for that reason?

The more reasons, the more people in contact with each other and the more it spreads

No one likes this but getting the virus is shit so you really want to do all you can to avoid it

Well yes you're right. But TBH most of those people would find a way to make a bubble regardless.

I wasn’t meaning in regards to risk to grandparents I meant spread in general. Even if they are in school part of the time if they then have to go to childminders or after school care they will be mixing with even more households. If they stick to a child care bubble it limits the total number of households that are mixed.

Although there is a general assumption on Mumsnet that grandparents are over 70, this isn’t my experience at all, most grandparents I know are of working age still so of the same age as other childcare providers.

Childcare bubbles don’t have to be grandparents either they can be any friend or family member so lots are forming a bubble with another parent at school or aunts etc.

People have to make their own decisions on who to form a bubble with and if they are vulnerable etc but it still makes more sense for children to be with one childcare provider than at a setting with multiple families.

Reading these posts I don't actually think it's the bubbles which are the problem, it's people interpreting the rules to fit what they want. Support bubbles were introduced because it's inhumane to not allow people living alone to see someone else, and because there has been a huge rise of PND and domestic violence in households with newborn babies. they are essential and shouldn't be scrapped. But people need to stick to what they're allowed. Too many people on here are in more than one support bubble and seem to think it's allowed. IT IS NOT. You are allowed to be in ONE support bubble only. That is including single person support bubbles and baby under 1 bubbles. You cannot be in both.

Childcare bubbles are separate and you can be in one childcare bubble as well as one support bubble, but can't socialise with the adults in it. Again childcare bubbles are essential so need to be kept, but people really need to stick to the bubble rules to keep the case rises from bubbles down.

Personally I think you should only be allowed one bubble, whether that's a support bubble or childcare bubble but not both. This would keep interactions to the minimum but still keeping the essential bubbles.

No one likes this but getting the virus is shit so you really want to do all you can to avoid it

Not as shit as my mum attempting suicide after 2 months in her house alone with no human interaction.

The only reason for the child under 1 is because it suits Boris family. He didn’t put that rule in to start with but I’m going to guess his fiancée pushed for it because of little what’s his name.

@Alwaysandforeverhere

The only reason for the child under 1 is because it suits Boris family. He didn’t put that rule in to start with but I’m going to guess his fiancée pushed for it because of little what’s his name.

🙄

I think most of us with an under 1 bubble have been very thoughtful over who we bubble with. My eldest is out of nursery and husband works from home mainly. We get food delivered by local companies and one supermarket delivery for us and the other household. We do not go for walks with anyone outside the bubble. It is no different to if they lived with us given how we have set it up

People not being so insanely careful, they are possibly more likely to cause spread of course but its not always possible to do what we have done

@Babysharkdoodoodood

Yeah. They're not bubbles. My son said this to his lecturer in a room of 30 other kids when she said we're all in a bubble: 'Nah. We're in a vector spreading Venn diagram'

Yes, but schools are a different issue

The poster is talking about much smaller support and childcare bubbles

We're in a vector spreading Venn diagram

Vector spreading?