All these "bubbles"

[lovelylittlepanda]

So, childcare bubble, support bubble, separate Christmas bubble, changing your bubble, travelling to see your "bubbled" household etc.

All allowed. All have highly technical fine print probably read by very few.

Impact on Covid rates.

Discuss.

Disclaimer: we are in one. Wouldn't want to terminate it obvs.

I’m a parent of one teenager. Because his parents are still together he’s not allowed to see anyone indoors (we’re in tier 4 and he’s 14 so too old for a childcare bubble). This is manageable when schools are open. But now they’re shut and poor DS isn’t going to be allowed to see anyone. It seems unfair that as an one child household he has no rights to a support bubble (despite the fact that an household containing one adult would be allowed a support bubble).

Why should we stop bubbles??
I haven't caught it from mine, they haven't caught it from me!
No impact on virus transmission or hospital admissions.

@LoudTree

I would be strongly against stopping support bubbles- I think it was inhuman to keep people effectively in solitary confinement for months with no human contact last time.

However, I would restrict it to people who live alone. It should never have been extended to single parents or families with babies.

They weren't extended to single parents, single parents were rightly in the first group as the only adult in a household AND are also caring for children alone.

Bubbles are not the problem, when used "correctly" - I say that loosely because who tf knows what the rulez are anymore?! We are a nation of stiff upper-lippers who want to go about our business as we see fit because we know best. And we're rightly pissed off because we've got a shower of shite representing us at the top who have the integrity of a gnats turd. It's like when the shit supply teacher who couldn't control the kids came to spend the day at school and everyone threw things at them until they cried.

As a nation, we need a figurehead we can respect so that when they give us a command, we say "ok fair play". Trouble is, the shower of shite have dragged this out so badly and for so long now, that many have decided they're done listening and stuck 2 fingers up to be whole thing.

I don't blame them.

Where I live, it seems to have been a case of visit your friends and relatives over Christmas and call yourself a 'support bubble'. I think there's been a lot of pisstaking going on.

@turnthebiglightoff

As a nation, we need a figurehead we can respect so that when they give us a command

A command ? Are we robots? I think people need to stop blaming the 'figureheads at the top' and start taking responsibility for their own actions.

Stay away from those outside your household and only come into contact when absolutely necessary (and if you do, wear PPE and do it outside where possible). Minimise the 'bubbling'

It's not difficult

My DM is seriously mentally ill, with physical consequences. Admitted to hospital in 2017 and hasn't recovered. My DF is her carer and has to do all housework, all meals, all finances, all shopping, help her dress, shower her, help with finishing meals and lifting cups for her (her hands shake too much to lift them).

They absolutely need their support bubble. I visit every day, now that it is allowed, and did before the first lockdown.

The first lockdown was awful because I couldn't visit and give the support they needed. I visited 3 times for emergencies.

I am grateful for the bubble. But we don't abuse it. We see no-one else (tier 4), get online shopping as much as possible, and go nowhere.

Lougle

Totally sympathise. I'm in a similar situation with my own DM who has a chronic illness and associated MH problems (understandably). She lives with my adult sister who desperately needs in person support. I won't apologise for that and if support bubbles were banned I would continue as we are. We are as careful as possible- we wfh, we don't use public transport, we don't enter shops at all bar 30 seconds to get a single item like milk or bread, we wear masks even when outdoors. I pulled my son out of school before Christmas and will keep him off for the forseeable.

I think people are clearly taking advantage of “bubbles” I’m on a single parent website and a woman “bubbled” with her ex so she could go and see him on NY which was clearly just for sex as she hadn’t seen or heard from him since (that’s why she was posting as she was annoyed she hadn’t heard from him) I questioned how he was her bubble then, as that’s the first time she had seen him in a year. I asked if she or him had another bubble then as it hardly sounds like a support bubble and she deleted the post, seems people think you can bubble with anyone when you feel like it and that can change from day to day.

@Lougle and @Saylethewayles

if support bubbles were banned

I do not think support bubbles will be banned (especially not for situations like yours). This thread was more for hypothetical discussion and the effect on transmission of people taking the piss and abusing the rules

@Givemeabreak88

Discuss.
I don't mind entering into a discussion but it pees me off no end when anyone writes "Discuss". It comes across like an order and like an exam paper question. Can you not word your request more appropriately?

So, childcare bubble, support bubble, separate Christmas bubble, changing your bubble, travelling to see your "bubbled" household etc
The way you have worded it sounds like there are far more bubbles than there were and are.

All bubbles increase the risk of transmitting Covid. However, some are necessary.

Support bubble:
I formed a support bubble with a vulnerable relative who lives alone and is in need of assistance which I generally provide weekly. I know I could still have provided socially-distanced care but was pleased I could form a support bubble instead so we could be considered one household. That way, I can hug them hello and goodbye and was able to take them in our car to hospital and GP appointments.

Single parents may need support and I have no problem with these forming support bubbles. However, I think it was totally unnecessary to extend support bubbles to households with children under 1 year where there are 2 adults.

Childcare bubble:
Obviously necessary if we want parents to continue to work.

Christmas bubble:
Thankfully only temporary but shouldn't have been allowed. I think it was ridiculous to undo any benefits from the 5 November to 2 December restrictions by allowing households to mix indoors at Christmas. Hospitals will see increasing hospitalisations and deaths in the next week or so as a result of this.

School bubbles:
Used as an excuse by parents for their children to mix with others outside of school.
Totally unnecessary. It should have been mandatory for all pupils and teachers to wear masks at all times in school. No exceptions. Class also shown on zoom. If you can't wear a mask then you stay home and attend the lessons using Zoom.

Childcare bubbles and support bubbles should be one and the same. I don’t think you should be able to be both e.g. your daughters childcare bubble and your single friend/relative’s support bubble. One or the other really
I agree to an extent but what if there aren't then enough people to go around to provide support for those single people households in need of support?

I have no issue with the concept of a support bubble for single adults/lone parents but I do think bubbles should be exclusive and those who have formed a bubble should then be extra careful not to mingle with anyone else

@trulydelicious but it was a command we were given. I didn't use the wrong word there. In March the command was "stay at home". That's the command now, too. And it is hard to "follow the rules" because the rules have often been arbitrary and without context. If the rules were easy to follow more people would. And if we had locked down properly in March, closed our borders and not shaken hands with fucking everyone people like Boris did, and if we didn't have senior cabinet ministers dashing off to second homes, and if our PM had a modicum of leadership ability, we would be in a better position. I've followed "the rules" as much as I can; I've got a toddler so can't promise I've always been 2m away from people, but by and large I've done what's needed and it's been absolutely shit. Not easy at all, really fucking hard. The easy thing is to say sod it all and go and see your family.

@lovelylittlepanda
Yup, agree that I don't want it to end either, but my question was what impact it has had on Covid rates, not what impact does it have on our lives.
You said "Discuss". If you only want to know the impact on Covid rates then that 'discussion' is a one-liner:
Having bubbles increases the risk of Covid transmission rates.

Unless all parties in a support bubble see only each other, imagine it must contribute to spread?

I agree that childcare and support bubbles should be the same thing, but bubbles are here to stay for as long as we have the virus. Even if they were banned people would still have them because people need human interaction enough that they’d break the rule if they were forced to.

I don’t even think we should be thinking about removing support bubbles unless schools have been closed for at least 4 weeks and it’s still not having an effect on bringing infection rates down.

Unless all parties in a support bubble see only each other, imagine it must contribute to spread?

That's how it's meant to be yes.

I'm anti lockdown.
But yes indeed the bubble thing is easily exploited.
Say you've got a household who knows three people who live alone. They could see all three people and, if in the highly unlikely admittedly, caught they can just say they're not breaking any rules of if with only one singleton at a time.

Yes support bubbles should be the absolute last thing to go, way after schools have been closed for a while. It’s in humane not to keep them.

Interesting. Our (very nice) widowed neighbour is “bubbling” with all 3 children and their families.
Suspect that a lot of people don’t understand.

People are taking advantage of bubbles and I know of people referring to any visit as a "bubble" to get around the rules. eg visiting elderly parents who live together - support bubble, then another set of elderly parents who live together - another support bubble, playdates after school - childcare bubble. And the "bubbles" change. Its basically groups of people inter-mingling so is bound to have an impact if a lot of people are doing it.

It was amazing how many support bubbles were suddenly formed at Christmas time. If people see/work with other people outside their bubble then yes bubbles will help spread the virus.

Technically I am in a support bubble with DM as she lives by herself. She is local. However, she is elderly and vulnerable so I still only see her mainly outside, or now the weather is colder inside but 2m apart and with a mask on. We have a teenager at school. All because she is in our bubble doesn't mean she is immune to the virus my son may bring home from college.

My MIL ( who lives alone ) has about 6 so say 'support bubbles '. She is tier 4 and had one of them to her house for the day yesterday .