AIBU to stand up for children and parents...

[alwaysraining123]

... and say that closing schools is not an option. Some observations.

(1) millions of children will suffer poorer mental health, educational deficits and be at risk of physical harm.
(2) if schools close now the government will struggle to get them back open.
(3) the unions are playing a highly political game preying shamelessly on people’s fears.
(4) online learning is of no use for most of the primary school years. Parents basically need to be available all day to support children.
(5) more parents are going to find themselves unable to work causing more financial hardship. This won’t affect your middle class sahps or people who can work from home as much- there are people who actually have to go out of their house to earn a living.
(6) if you’re parent and you’re worried you can keep your child at home.
(7) educational transmission of the virus is low and infection control standards can be escalated where needed.

Whatever is done we need to place maintaining educational provision for children at the heart of it. We need to make it work...there’s no other option.

Classrooms are not crowded

Those is starting to feel like a press conference with the present administration of the White House.

@toocold54

Classrooms are not crowded My classroom sits 24 but I have 32 in my class who are perched on the end of desks and don’t have enough space for their A4 books.

For those saying schools shouldn’t be closed because it’s more damaging to them etc if your child is tested positive they will need to have 2 weeks off anyway.
Surely it is better they are having two weeks off with the rest of the school instead of everyone being off at different times. That’s how I look at it.

This won't be two weeks, you'll be out of action for months, anyone who this is a two weeker is deluded

@NeurologicallySpeaking I don’t have the data they’re looking at. Do SAGE disagree that limited transmission is happening in schools? I’m not sure I’ve seen anything to the contrary specifically on this point. The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control also reports this point whilst recognising that we’re too early to conclude anything re new strain.

@Flaxmeadow

...We are still willing to work, either doing remote learning and/or in school working with key worker and vulnerable children. We’re just not prepared to go into an unsafe workplace and put our health at risk under section 44 of health and safety legislation

So you have replied to my concerns about deprived, neglected or abused primary age children missing out on their school safety net, not with any kind of solution to keeping schools open for them but with concerns for your own safety.

Riiiiight

What about NHS, food retail, other vital services, should they "walk out" too because they are not "safe". Why don't we all just walk out. "Sorry Mrs Blogs, no shopping for you this week, supermarket is shut, people get too close to me at my till and some of them don't wear masks but you can always go on YouTube and remote watch people cooking if you like"

Are our children to stare at more fucking screens for months on end, at 5 and 6 years old,, until we all go bonkers. Is that what teachers want?

What is wrong with you? Clearly all teachers don't want the same thing. They are not a homogenous group. Neither are all 5/6 year olds or all parents. I am a teacher and a parent of a 6 year old. Personally I would prefer my 6 year old at home despite the difficulties as I am worried about the transmission of the new variant in our v risky T4 area. But she copes well with home learning.

Some of my colleagues are terrified to go to work. Some hate working at home and volunteered to supervise key worker children every day of lockdown 1 so they could keep coming to school.

Like any keyworker there is a balance between the needs of our own families and the needs of the children at school. Although hospital NHS staff have kept working face to face without, not all NHS staff have. For example the health visitor who wouldn't see me when my baby was born, the GP who said I had to go to the hospital when I had postnatal complications as she couldn't risk seeing me face to face even though it was ok for the hospital-based GP to do so (without any PPE).

Maybe teachers aren't as selfless as NHS staff. Do they have to be? I care deeply for the children I teach. But they aren't my family.

YABU

I'm all for putting children first when the circumstances are equal.

I'd give children the right to food over adults.

I'd give children the right to clothing over adults.

I'd give children the right to an education over an adult's right to an education.

But I'd not give children the right to an education over an adult's right to safety.

Who said classrooms aren't crowded?

Obviously SAGE don't make govt policy but anyone can read the minutes online. They have stated R will not drop below 1 with existing measures and schools open. Closing secondary schools would have a greater impact on R dropping. So one would assume that they think transmission is happening in schools otherwise why would they state that closing secondaries would impact R?!

@Gooseygoosey12345

Transmission in schools is low? 80 odd cases in kids and 14 staff cases in the local high school, it's not even a big school. I wouldn't call that low. I want my children at home. I'm not a "catastrophiser" but it's ridiculous to expect things to carry on as normal. You also need to remember this is someone's workplace. If this was your workplace would you be happy to go in? 30 kids in a small classroom?

Are we not talking about primary here though so this is irrelevant? I'm not saying I disagree or agree personally I think no one including teachers know enough about how this new variant is likely to effect primary's.

Point is it's very different when looking at children age 12+ and the way they move around a school in comparison to primary aged children.

Without talking about the new variant there were 2 cases in ds school from sept to dec both of which were teachers not children. I'd be interested to know case rates from other children's primary's and if it was a child or teacher, not to be antagonistic I'm just genuinely curious about the actual figures

I think you're conflating the argument for vulnerable children with your desires for your own children so it's understand that the poster should respond to what is obviously the task issues for you-your kids.

No. It isn't about my kids, Grandchildren actually. I live in a deprived area, social services, NHS and police are stretched right now, it's a crisis. It's more about all those children who rely on school for some regular respite from unfortunate or even abusive backgrounds.

Please stop weaponising vulnerable children as this teacher had probably done more for them than you ever will.

Done what exactly? It's all our jobs. It's up to all of us to do our bit, and especially in a crisis and especially when schools are at the centre of our communities but they want to shut them down and have primary age children in front of even more screens

You know perfectly well she has no desire for any six year old to go bonkers. I expect you're also aware that being a Sainsbury's worker and having 30 6 year olds clamouring against you are quite different things.

Children are in supermarkets all the time. Thousands of households pass through supermarkets everyday. What do teachers want exactly? To be bubble wrapped at home and never be in any situation where the virus might be? To get vaccine priority, over other workers just as at risk? I dont get it? I dont get what why they want to walk out and especially not now when they are needed so much

(You're being quite offensive and frankly I don't see why any teacher would be inclined to risk getting Covid teaching children from families with an attitude like this

So you think teachers should punish a child for a parent/grandparents views on strike action. Are there any other parents views you disapprove of, or find offensive, about news items or politcs, that suggest their children don't deserve school.

Local primaries to me, and we are currently in reasonably low rate area - have had KS2 classes out and EYFS down to children. No positive results before last half term, then cases started creeping up in the local, area colleges also quite badly hit, again children testing positive not staff.

My poor then 7 year old sat next to me playing roblox all day when I was working along side her in lock down.

However, some stuff is actually very good and does teach them different things, quite often when I asked her to come off she said 'not now mummy I'm taking a robber to jail' '

I used her adoration of roblox to give me leverage to get her to work with me for short periods every day and actually, with 1:1 attention and quality time I'm amazed at how much she came on.

She's been sat glued to Minecraft over this holiday with some walks, family games and films.
It's far too much screen time, but I'm sure we will all have a freer time of it by summer (if we lock down now) and our feet won't touch the ground!

Unfortunately I've seen some scientists claim that if we let this run rampant now, we could be looking at restrictions until summer.
Personally I'd rather lock down now in winter, when there isn't much to do.

I dont get it? I dont get what why they want to walk out and especially not now when they are needed so much.

I can see you don't get it because you don't want to. Which is fine. I still doubt you've done anything like as much as these teachers you're hating on. They're heroes usually. But they're also entitled to safe working conditions and they didn't sign up to be martyrs unnecessarily. That's it. If you don't get it, you don't get it. There will always be alternative views!

Flax you just admitted teachers are needed then said they don't deserve the vaccine!!

I know, it's horrendous!

I get the impression they could sign up to be infected with Covid for experimental purposes and they would still have failed her grandchildren in some obscure way.

@NeurologicallySpeaking the SAGE source is Dr Mike Tildesley. His quote to the BBC is in this article.

inews.co.uk/news/uk/no-significant-pressure-from-new-covid-19-strain-on-childrens-wards-say-paediatricians-815513/amp

Flax you just admitted teachers are needed then said they don't deserve the vaccine!!

No I didn't say that at all. What the hell are you talking about. Teachers are needed yes, but I didn't say they don't deserve a vaccine

Stop misquoting me for the gallery

PanickingPavlova, your post about Roblox made me laugh, although I am really jangled by this thread. During the first part of the spring lockdown, I didn't take my DC's school up on their offer of keyworker places as I was scared to send them to school as DP's Dsib had just died of Covid very suddenly. During the days when I was creating online content, or meeting online with my class, calling parents, providing feedback for other parents' children, my own were quietly playing Roblox. I actually introduced it in a "What the hell, how much worse can it get?!"-moment. DC1 who has mild SEN made loads of progress in maths as a result, super motivated to calculate AdoptMe-money. My DC did their home learning at all kinds of hours, ie when I wasn't working (when they were pretty much left to do their own thing), and it was a bit odd, but we scraped through. Thank God for Roblox.

@PlanDeRaccordement

I agree OP with caveat. Vaccinate all teachers and then open the schools.

Yep

I can see you don't get it because you don't want to. Which is fine. I still doubt you've done anything like as much as these teachers you're hating on.

I don't hate teachers at all. I just don't understand why they don't consider themselves key workers as well. I also don't recognise the things they say on here compared with what they say irl

They're heroes usually. But they're also entitled to safe working conditions and they didn't sign up to be martyrs unnecessarily.

No one signed up to be martyrs but they still go to work everyday and some in conditions that are worse than classrooms. I do sympathise and I'd do think there is case for closing secondary schools, but I think the risks for all schools are being exaggerated for political reasons. I'm not even sure it's real teachers posting most of the time, or whether they are political activists

That's it. If you don't get it, you don't get it. There will always be alternative views!

It feels like alternate views aren't allowed though. Any view not in line is labelled "hating teachers" piled on, to shut it down. Even in threads started by parents

Unions are not calling for a strike

Yes they are. It's a "walkout", which is a strike

You have to be in the building to walk out. The union is advising staff not to enter the building. Quite different.

It feels like alternate views aren't allowed though. Any view not in line is labelled "hating teachers" piled on, to shut it down. Even in threads started by parents

1.Yet here you are. Again.

1. The last time I looked, many teachers were parents.
2. An informed view is needed when you continue to spout what is at best ill-informed views, at worst deliberate lies to inflame the situation.

TheEchtMeaningOfChristmas

You have to be in the building to walk out. The union is advising staff not to enter the building. Quite different

It's a figure of speech.

"Walkout" doesn't have to mean literally walking out of a building. Like a "wildcat strike" isn't actually freaking out cats refusing to be petted because you gave them a different brand of tuna chunks

1.Yet here you are. Again.
2. The last time I looked, many teachers were parents.
3. An informed view is needed when you continue to spout what is at best ill-informed views, at worst deliberate lies to inflame the situation.

Informed about the different categories of industrial action?

Yes people often have different views and opinions. That's life

It's a figure of speech

No it's not. It describes a particular industrial action, and you can't walk out of work unless you're in it., i.e. in the place of work.

Not coming into the place of work under Section 44* is not strike action and does not require a vote:

*www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/section/44

Yes people often have different views and opinions

These are facts, not opinions.

I think the risks for all schools are being exaggerated for political reasons.

Working in them I thinknthey are being pkayed down for political reasons. However different viewpoints of the same situation give us greater understanding. Also we will both be influenced by our experiences inside our local schools as to how the situation really is in that school.

Here is to the vaccine kicking covids ass so we can quickly get back to some sort of normality in all our lives, even if masks, social distancing and handgel continue to be with us for months to come.

YABU! Please don't stand up for me.
I used to be for opening schools but not anymore.