AIBU to stand up for children and parents...

[alwaysraining123]

... and say that closing schools is not an option. Some observations.

(1) millions of children will suffer poorer mental health, educational deficits and be at risk of physical harm.
(2) if schools close now the government will struggle to get them back open.
(3) the unions are playing a highly political game preying shamelessly on people’s fears.
(4) online learning is of no use for most of the primary school years. Parents basically need to be available all day to support children.
(5) more parents are going to find themselves unable to work causing more financial hardship. This won’t affect your middle class sahps or people who can work from home as much- there are people who actually have to go out of their house to earn a living.
(6) if you’re parent and you’re worried you can keep your child at home.
(7) educational transmission of the virus is low and infection control standards can be escalated where needed.

Whatever is done we need to place maintaining educational provision for children at the heart of it. We need to make it work...there’s no other option.

I agree that schools closing should be an absolute last resort but I really hate demonising of teachers and unions. Unions exist to protect their members and schools are not safe places for their members. They are doing exactly what they are paid to do. No PPE, no social distancing and cramped conditions with 30+ other people is not safe. Why is it a "highly political game" to call for considerations about people's safety? It's hardly the fault of teachers or unions. The government should have planned much more effectively; PPE, support for testing, higher priority for teachers being vaccinated could all have removed the need for this debate.

Never,

Supermarket customers have to wear masks in the main (personallly, I think there should be zero exceptions, to protect the staff). In addition, supermarket staff can maintain distance from customers.

NHS work is risky. PPE has not proved adequate and many have become sick. Medicine, however, has always been a risky profession and I don’t think that there is a single doctor or nurse who has not known this, since training. I salute them for the work that they do and think that it is a noble profession.

On the other hand, teachers did not sign up to a physically risky profession and they are now being asked to work in extremely hazardous conditions, especially for older and vulnerable teachers. Pupils are very poor at wearing masks and frequently forget distancing.

In addition, schools are just contributing too much infection spread for their opening to be safe to the general community.

Education is extremely important, but over a period of 14 years, not 3-4 months. In exceptional times, it is also reasonable to ask all parents to make a greater contribution to their own children’s education.

With regards to using prison officers as a comparison, not sure that works. Definitely not a job I could do, and am not knocking them - but it’s not like the inmates are going home every evening and mixing with others.

How is healthcare a physically risky occupation in normal times?what excess risk is usually involved with being a physio or an occupational therapist or a pathologist or a pharmacist or indeed a doctor or nurse? Teachers choose to be in close contact with small people who have poor hygiene and are frequently unwell. I don’t really see an enormous difference!

How is healthcare a physically risky occupation in normal times?what excess risk is usually involved with being a physio or an occupational therapist or a pathologist or a pharmacist or indeed a doctor or nurse? Teachers choose to be in close contact with small people who have poor hygiene and are frequently unwell. I don’t really see an enormous difference!

There’s a massive difference!

A vet has to train for longer than a doctor and deals with mainly mammals which are obviously anatomically the same as humans but you still wouldn’t expect them to do surgery on a human because that’s not in their job description and they are not trained in that area.

All of the above need to teach people in some way when giving advice on exercises/medication but you wouldn’t expect them to do this to a room of 30 at one time. But you could argue that giving advice is what they signed up to so there’s not much difference giving it to one person or a class of 30.

@toocold54 I’m a bit confused by your post. Any people working with groups of people will be exposed to low level illness. I’m questioning why HCP would be at huge risk above and beyond this in normal times.
As an aside physios frequently teach (healthy) groups for rehab and exercise programmes,

I’m a bit confused by your post. Any people working with groups of people will be exposed to low level illness. I’m questioning why HCP would be at huge risk above and beyond this in normal times.

But all those HCP professionals have training in the risks and hazards of illnesses which teachers don’t have.
So although these times are out of the ordinary those who have that type of training are going to be more prepared than those that don’t.
All the healthcare professionals I have ever visited even opticians pre-COVID have had hand sanitiser and wash their hands and wipe down surfaces someone has been in contact with it’s just second nature to them but that’s because they’ve been taught to do those things.

As an aside physios frequently teach (healthy) groups for rehab and exercise programmes,

But I assume this will he part of their job description and are trained to do so. It’s not just thrown upon them and they’re expected to know what they’re doing with no training.

Also I can’t think of any HCP which deals with 30+ in one small room for the entire day.

@toocold54

I’m a bit confused by your post. Any people working with groups of people will be exposed to low level illness. I’m questioning why HCP would be at huge risk above and beyond this in normal times.

But all those HCP professionals have training in the risks and hazards of illnesses which teachers don’t have.
So although these times are out of the ordinary those who have that type of training are going to be more prepared than those that don’t.
All the healthcare professionals I have ever visited even opticians pre-COVID have had hand sanitiser and wash their hands and wipe down surfaces someone has been in contact with it’s just second nature to them but that’s because they’ve been taught to do those things.

As an aside physios frequently teach (healthy) groups for rehab and exercise programmes,

But I assume this will he part of their job description and are trained to do so. It’s not just thrown upon them and they’re expected to know what they’re doing with no training.

My daughter's hospital physio was cancelled. She is now having sessions again but 1:1 basis only under very strict conditions. Group sessions are not taking place.

I'm doing the keyworkers dance right now, u got a space for my kids, my husband is a key worker and I work full time and am not but very grateful as it's saved my sanity

Mrs Johnson

But my question was why all HCP are regarded as having a physically risky occupation? What risks do they have? I’ve certainly never thought this, and barring stomach bugs have never been ill or felt unduly exposed to anything

Bungle I get what you’re saying. It’s often mentioned on here but when you break it down to say a surgeon, cancer care, physio, midwife etc why is it so thought to be so

@ofboris

I'm doing the keyworkers dance right now, u got a space for my kids, my husband is a key worker and I work full time and am not but very grateful as it's saved my sanity

Lucky! No chance here

@BungleandGeorge

But my question was why all HCP are regarded as having a physically risky occupation? What risks do they have? I’ve certainly never thought this, and barring stomach bugs have never been ill or felt unduly exposed to anything

We are all exposed to loads of things we aren't aware of ever day, for some reason we've all become obsessed with controlling it, the media have done a right old job on us

But my question was why all HCP are regarded as having a physically risky occupation?

I guess it’s just being in close contact with people whereas some other professions you don’t actually have to be close enough to touch people. So you’re more likely to catch something than say a train driver but it doesn’t mean you will catch something.

In normal times we have very little serious infectious disease in this country. What we do have we generally have vaccinations for. The hygiene in hospitals is not primarily to protect staff, it’s to protect the vulnerable patients who are elderly, immunocompromised, unwell etc A healthy staff member providing care is at very, very low risk. Unless you signed up to the armed services or law enforcement I don’t think anyone expected an increased risk , and even then I’d support our troops etc to have every single safety measure possible. I think it’s a mistake to argue amongst ourselves about why we might be more worthy

Well OP our local council had confirmed on Facebook that schools will be open as normal in our area. Not one person has said great. Every single person has criticised them for not supporting their schools and parents so I guess you are not standing up for those parents and their children.

Isn't this pretty much what dentists did, refuse to treat patients until PPE was improved and more known about aerosol transmission.

I think it’s a mistake to argue amongst ourselves about why we might be more worthy

I agree.

Nurses are kitted up with PPE and in a strictly managed environment. Hospitals test patients for covid and triage/ward them accordingly

That people think this about all NHS sectors shows a spectacular naivete.

This is the last resort.

My dc have their 1st dental appointment for nearly a year today, I'm very nervous about them going!

I've been quite calm about it all since March. But today I cancelled my optician's appointment.

1% of the population of the town has covid right now. Sitting in a tiny windowless room with the optometrist just inches away from me sharing that air, just didn't seem wise.
I can only hope that the optometrist appreciated having one less person to have to share that tiny space with, too.

In my school today, just under 50% of pupils were in. This is the worst of both worlds.
School hasn’t closed so plans were all for face to face teaching. With half the class in, what do we do? Deliver it for the children who are there? What about the ones who aren’t? It’ll have to be redone for them at some point anyway. Can’t do anything online (some parents let us know at 8.30 this morning their children weren’t coming in so no time) so the kids at home are getting nothing.
So today was essentially babysitting for half the school while the others carried on their holiday. It was fun but bugger all to do with education.

At least if we closed we could plan decent online learning for all. We can’t force people to send their children in. This half and half doesn’t work for any of our children. (And before anyone comments, we will be open for key worker children if we need to, but in the summer term, the key worker children were all the children of the staff who work in the school. We have one child that technically qualifies but her mum was one of the people who chose not to send her in today...)