So how the F are we meant to work?

[Littlewhitedove2]

3 primary age kids. One parent left who won’t leave their house except the shops much less come anywhere near me or the kids. Inlaws in a similar position.
Primary school closed. It won’t be 2 weeks - it will be far longer than that.
Husband full time work.
I work part time as much as I can around school but not critical worker.
How do women work now?

[quote tappitytaptap]@SimonJT how did people in your company cope with the first lockdown? In normal times we have similar policies but all bets are off now[/quote]
A lot of people in the team already had nannies, so many extended their hours. I was furloughed for eight weeks, which then meant my coworkers had to also cover my duties. We were allowed flexi working for two weeks, productivity was very good but our boss likes being in control so we had to go back to working during our contracted hours. When that happened a friend came over to provide childcare.

[quote cloudchaos]@HancocksSexTears "It's actually in my contract that I cannot work from home with children present, they turned a blind eye last time, but once they decide to clear the decks we are all potentially fcuked"

Which sort of proves my point that it's better for all schools to be closed so they have no choice but to treat everyone equally and turn a blind eye like last time. [/quote]
Business doesn't treat its people with equality, it pays us, we do stuff

For every man saying their employer wont allow any flexibility, there are plenty saying that there are men in their teams who never even asked

^^This. My dh was one of them - couldn't possibly be done. When he asked, they said yes.

@HancocksSexTears and I can't send my kids to school either, and have a high pressure job. My husband does also. We are lucky we can work from home, but I have a 2 year old and 5 year old, neither of which can be left alone - not even in the next room.

It's shit. Last time my husband and I had to schedule conference calls around each other and we worked earlier and later to make up time. My employer was aware and was more relaxed about internal calls if a child needed to be in the background on an iPad and I had to just accept I couldn't do everything. Everyone was in the same boat so there wasn't a huge amount my employer could say.

It's shit for everyone. But it's even shitter if the childcare falls by default to the woman in the house.

Personally I don't have any better ideas for how to manage this once in a lifetime situation, and since I don't have any better ideas I struggle to judge the ideas that people are at least coming up with. If you do have better ideas, perhaps share them with your MP and try to make a difference?

Why is it only the employers of women that seem to be able to be flexible ?

Women are more likely to work part time after having children - it’s much easier to spread 17.5 hours across 5 days than to spread 40 hours across 5 days. In our case I work part time and run a small business, the small business is all but mothballed costing us a third of our income, we lost 20% of my husbands salary because he dropped hours so I could do my day job. So in my case it’s been bits of flexibility carved out of just not doing stuff and it’s come at a cost. We’ve been very lucky to manage on a reduced income but many don’t have that capacity.

@GoldenOmber sorry I missed this, yes you're right. I'm sure many would think legal provisions would be sensible. I will see if I can find the petition you mentioned on the other board.

The logistics of getting on the "vaccination army" are ridiculous... I've been employed the DBS will take forever, they won't accept the one I had in July... Plus x 3 half days of online training and some face to face and having to provide "proof of my own immunisation status" from childhood! I was "part cleared" by the occ health dept but she's left it to me to ring round the occ health departments of my old employers to try to chase this down. I'm losing the will with it, and feel like withdrawing my application. I've applied to and accepted numerous jobs in healthcare over the years and never had such a collossal rigmarole.

@nuitdesetoiles

The logistics of getting on the "vaccination army" are ridiculous... I've been employed the DBS will take forever, they won't accept the one I had in July... Plus x 3 half days of online training and some face to face and having to provide "proof of my own immunisation status" from childhood! I was "part cleared" by the occ health dept but she's left it to me to ring round the occ health departments of my old employers to try to chase this down. I'm losing the will with it, and feel like withdrawing my application. I've applied to and accepted numerous jobs in healthcare over the years and never had such a collossal rigmarole.

My (retired emergency services) DF has found the same! It’s ridiculous we have people able and willing to help who are being tied up in bureaucracy. I hope they cut all the ridiculous training right back so people can just crack on!

@cloudchaos early years settings aren't closing so you should be able to access your normal child care for the 2yo at least

[quote cloudchaos]@HancocksSexTears "Yes that's correct, if your a high earning women furlough doesn't work"

Hopefully if you are a high earning woman then your children's father can "afford" to ask for some flexibility with their employer and you have loads of money, including access to nannies and a "rainy day fund" 😏

You seem to be suggesting the government should pay 100% of salaries for everyone in the country for potentially years while we deal with covid. How do you propose the country funds that? Particularly when you seem to be suggesting we should also be paying 100% salary of these "high earners" 🤨

[/quote]
I'm a single parent so can't ask my "husband".

80% of my salary up to a maximum of £2.5k per month would result in over £2.5k loss of income per month for me.

I'm not asking to be paid 100% of my salary by the government, I want to work.

There's something really amusing about a feminist suggesting the "husbands" of the land should step up, when we all know families come in all shapes and sizes

I agree Nikhedonia and I'm sure that lots of women feel like that.

I was reflecting a few days ago that one of the five demands of the original Women's Liberation Movement was the availability of 24 hour childcare.

50 years later, and many, many more women in the workforce especially full-time, and things have gone backwards in many ways.

There seems to be no impetus or expectation that the state sets up structures to provide this. The structures that were in place 10, 20, 3 years ago have been demolished through ongoing cuts to local authorities.

I can understand why quick decisions had to be made in March, when it became apparent very quickly that schools were going to have to close.

It infuriates me that now, 9 months down the line in the midst of the foreseeable and predicted 'winter surge' of the virus, there is still no proper plan for childcare.

Schools for vulnerable, EHCP, key worker children, all well and good if there are enough staff well enough to person them, but then a bit of a mystery as to how those staff will be able to provide remote learning at the same time.

If schools can't open because there simply aren't enough staff well enough, not self-isolating and without childcare for their own children, then even keyworkers won't have childcare.

It's all so fragile.

You get the feeling that childcare is still often seen as a luxury good for individuals, not as critical national infrastructure.

@Nikhedonia I was being facetious based on the things Hancock was saying. Sorry if it didn't come across that way!

@HancocksSexTears

There's something really amusing about a feminist suggesting the "husbands" of the land should step up, when we all know families come in all shapes and sizes

Not sure if you're referring to me here, but I believe the two people (man and woman) who came together to create the child are equally responsible for it.

My post said "child's father" not husband 🤨

This thread does have some excellent points. Do we think the government understand these issues exist and doesn’t want to spend money to address them? Or are they predominantly white middle aged men who don’t see the issue as they’ve never personally been faced with it?

Or maybe there are still too few mothers in high earning roles so they don’t care about a small minority?

[quote cloudchaos]@Nikhedonia I was being facetious based on the things Hancock was saying. Sorry if it didn't come across that way! [/quote]
Ah ok, it really didn't come across that way. No worries, thanks for clarifying

@GoldenOmber

You get the feeling that childcare is still often seen as a luxury good for individuals, not as critical national infrastructure.

Absolutely! And very much sneered at by stay at by some stay at home parents on here.

And also that "working from home" doesn't actually involve work. The perception is we just sit around putting wash loads on answering a few calls and looking out of the window. So why would we need our children to be elsewhere.

One of the reasons that my exDH is not x is because when I worked from home on a previous career he assumed zip could go 10% childcare/ chores/car stuff/DIY etc because ‘you’re at home all day’
N e other topic, it’s Ia prevailing MN belief that children of ‘single parents’ were born thru immaculate conception and there is no other parent to pay for anything or provide any childcare.

@Lemons1571

This thread does have some excellent points. Do we think the government understand these issues exist and doesn’t want to spend money to address them? Or are they predominantly white middle aged men who don’t see the issue as they’ve never personally been faced with it?

Or maybe there are still too few mothers in high earning roles so they don’t care about a small minority?

It's partly ideological, up to the individual to find and resource their own solutions rather than the state to provide and resource the infrastructure.

Partly because the majority of the current government like most governments are male and aren't the one either providing childcare or doing the groundwork to set it up and organise it.

Also, wealthy with more options for childcare than most eg nannies who are able to continue to work in England.

There are fewer women in high earning roles than men, but the vast majority of households depend either solely or partly on women's wages to live.

The myth of women working for 'pin money' which was used to underpin public policy for years and still is to a degree has never been true for the majority of households.

And the reality is that most women will, most of the time, make it work through sacrificing their own health, well-being and privacy for the benefit of their children.

@christinarossetti19 I’m not saying that schools shouldn’t close, if they have to, they have to. However it would be lovely if someone acknowledged the absolutely huge impact on working parents, particularly mothers, in terms of physical and mental health. I don’t expect the government to do anything about it as to be honest I know I don’t matter as long as I pay my taxes, we are bottom of the pile. But I’m sad at the impact it will have on my children and obviously many many more who will be parented by exhausted, stressed parents and essentially neglected for parts of the day. I’m not saying that my health is more important than teachers before anyone starts that line, but trying to claim people will just muddle through is grossly unfair without acknowledging the impacts of doing so.

[quote tappitytaptap]@christinarossetti19 I’m not saying that schools shouldn’t close, if they have to, they have to. However it would be lovely if someone acknowledged the absolutely huge impact on working parents, particularly mothers, in terms of physical and mental health. I don’t expect the government to do anything about it as to be honest I know I don’t matter as long as I pay my taxes, we are bottom of the pile. But I’m sad at the impact it will have on my children and obviously many many more who will be parented by exhausted, stressed parents and essentially neglected for parts of the day. I’m not saying that my health is more important than teachers before anyone starts that line, but trying to claim people will just muddle through is grossly unfair without acknowledging the impacts of doing so.[/quote]
Exactly. Was there an acknowledgment in the briefing about the huge pressure that closing schools placed on working parents? Was there an acknowledgment that they were being put into an incredibly difficult position?

I don't think so. But there was when we couldn't celebrate Christmas together, FFS. And they aren't even comparable,

[quote tappitytaptap]@christinarossetti19 I’m not saying that schools shouldn’t close, if they have to, they have to. However it would be lovely if someone acknowledged the absolutely huge impact on working parents, particularly mothers, in terms of physical and mental health. I don’t expect the government to do anything about it as to be honest I know I don’t matter as long as I pay my taxes, we are bottom of the pile. But I’m sad at the impact it will have on my children and obviously many many more who will be parented by exhausted, stressed parents and essentially neglected for parts of the day. I’m not saying that my health is more important than teachers before anyone starts that line, but trying to claim people will just muddle through is grossly unfair without acknowledging the impacts of doing so.[/quote]
There's absolutely no narrative in any of the stories on this, about how it's impacting working parents

Yes, that's my point.

That there is no robust infrastructure to provide childcare. Nor any impetus to provide one and precious little, if any, acknowledgement that it's not there.

The reality is that the world functions by women caring and providing for their children often to the detriment to their own health and well-being (as I said in the post which apparently doesn't acknowledge the impact of a lack of childcare on working parents, especially women).