So how the F are we meant to work?

[Littlewhitedove2]

3 primary age kids. One parent left who won’t leave their house except the shops much less come anywhere near me or the kids. Inlaws in a similar position.
Primary school closed. It won’t be 2 weeks - it will be far longer than that.
Husband full time work.
I work part time as much as I can around school but not critical worker.
How do women work now?

@ancientgran

Sounds right @ancientgran it’s shit for everyone! Wouldn't it be nice if the balance was everyone happy.

Sadly i can’t see that happening! A lot of employers I know are pretty busy right now and trying to survive. Particularly in the private sector, that goodwill only goes so far. My employer is supportive and pays lip service to it but at the end of the day the work needs to be done. They haven’t made any redundancies and the most senior people in the organisation have taken a temporary pay cut. They are not going to let employees do no work, and I totally understand why!

@HancocksSexTears so what are you suggesting the government do? Pay 100% salaries to those earning 100k per year because they live to their means?

[quote tappitytaptap]@HancocksSexTears yep same here. Saying ‘oh get your employer to furlough you’ when mine and DH’s employers are furloughing nobody because they are incredibly busy is not going to wash. We also have a recruitment freeze in my organisation which is not helping matters![/quote]
How do you explain this though, as everyone watches and reads too much media and so assumes we're all in the same boat. Do t even get me started on those falling through the net...

@cloudchaos My DCs school is my childcare. I pay £26k a year for both of them to attend a private school with wrap around care. Lots of other professional working women do the same. There is no money left for nannies!

[quote cloudchaos]@HancocksSexTears so what are you suggesting the government do? Pay 100% salaries to those earning 100k per year because they live to their means? [/quote]
No one is suggesting this but can I just make the point that people earning this much (not me... yet) do pay an awful lot of tax that pays for things like the NHS. Contrary to the bitterness against high earners they do contribute a lot towards essential services. But for some reason on mumsnet it’s ok to be horrible to people who are high earners.

I do the same @BunsyGirl it is shit for a lot of people/everyone. But it shouldn't be down to just the women of the house to solve this problem.

@HancocksSexTears don’t get me started. ‘Working from home’ does not equal available to do childcare which for some reason is widely assumed in the media. Funnily enough my employer expects some output for the wage they pay to me each month.

[quote cloudchaos]@HancocksSexTears so what are you suggesting the government do? Pay 100% salaries to those earning 100k per year because they live to their means? [/quote]
If your mortgage is £x per month it's £x per month and it doesn't give a shit that there a pandemic, it still wants paying. In London, £100k isn't all that privileged, you can't buy a shitty bedsit for a penny less than half a million.

I'm not for furlough at all, I can't get furlough, I don't want furlough, I'd like schools open or a fully functioning online thought out provision like the OU manage since time began, media panic to drop, vaccine to be bloody administered properly, a new government who know what they're doing, people to stop endlessly voting Tory...

@tappitytaptap I'm not anti high earners at all, my family do okay and pay plenty of tax.

I'm just struggling to understand the solution people moaning about the current situation are proposing.

It seems to me everyone is moaning about what the government are doing, but don't have any concrete suggestions of what they should be doing which would be better.

[quote cloudchaos]@Jellycatspyjamas well employers need to be told by men, in the same way that women are having conversations with their employers.

The benefit of "all" schools being closed rather than just individuals saying that they don't want their kids to attend is that "everyone" has the same problem, so no one person should stand out as being awkward or open to redundancy if everyone says they have the same problems with childcare. A large number of people have kids.

Why is it only the employers of women that seem to be able to be flexible ? [/quote]
I’m the only man in my team at work, my boss is a woman, the boss above her is also a woman.

No one is allowed any flexibility regarding covid apart from working from home, we still have to book our lunch slots. Childcare while working is strictly banned and ignoring this results in a disciplinary. Parental leave requires 21 days notice and you have to take it in week blocks, not useful if there is another parent who has some flexibility. Only one person per team can be off at any one point, so even if I had some PL left I could have a maximum of one week off in the next 12 weeks.

@HancocksSexTears mortgage holidays are (or were) available.

I just don't see how the government can realistically pay for everyone's individual circumstances.

"I'm not for furlough at all, I can't get furlough, I don't want furlough, I'd like schools open or a fully functioning online thought out provision like the OU manage since time began, media panic to drop, vaccine to be bloody administered properly, a new government who know what they're doing, people to stop endlessly voting Tory..."

If schools were open, those who were vulnerable or chose not to send their kids to school for fear of getting covid would be penalised by their employer. At least if everyone is in the same boat with schools closed and childcare, everyone can understand the challenges people are facing - hopefully even employers.

Online learning is tricky for primary aged children.

@cloudchaos basically what @HancocksSexTears says above. Not against a short school closure period at all (it will be bloody difficult for everyone involved but it is as it is). For the government to sort the vaccine. My dad, retired medical professional, volunteered to vaccinate. You would not believe the amount of training and forms expected - the amount of red tape involved is ridiculous. It’s hardly going to speed anything up is it when we don’t facilitate people like my DF (who has been giving jabs for almost 40 years in a lot more complex circumstances) being able to quickly help out with the vaccination programme is it.

[quote cloudchaos]@tappitytaptap I'm not anti high earners at all, my family do okay and pay plenty of tax.

I'm just struggling to understand the solution people moaning about the current situation are proposing.

It seems to me everyone is moaning about what the government are doing, but don't have any concrete suggestions of what they should be doing which would be better. [/quote]
I suggested some just a few posts back and you agreed at least one of them sounded sensible?

[quote cloudchaos]@HancocksSexTears mortgage holidays are (or were) available.

I just don't see how the government can realistically pay for everyone's individual circumstances.

"I'm not for furlough at all, I can't get furlough, I don't want furlough, I'd like schools open or a fully functioning online thought out provision like the OU manage since time began, media panic to drop, vaccine to be bloody administered properly, a new government who know what they're doing, people to stop endlessly voting Tory..."

If schools were open, those who were vulnerable or chose not to send their kids to school for fear of getting covid would be penalised by their employer. At least if everyone is in the same boat with schools closed and childcare, everyone can understand the challenges people are facing - hopefully even employers.

Online learning is tricky for primary aged children.
[/quote]
The idealism...

If you took a mortgage holiday last time really, I mean, there's only do much goodwill

Face palm

[quote cloudchaos]@HancocksSexTears mortgage holidays are (or were) available.

I just don't see how the government can realistically pay for everyone's individual circumstances.

"I'm not for furlough at all, I can't get furlough, I don't want furlough, I'd like schools open or a fully functioning online thought out provision like the OU manage since time began, media panic to drop, vaccine to be bloody administered properly, a new government who know what they're doing, people to stop endlessly voting Tory..."

If schools were open, those who were vulnerable or chose not to send their kids to school for fear of getting covid would be penalised by their employer. At least if everyone is in the same boat with schools closed and childcare, everyone can understand the challenges people are facing - hopefully even employers.

Online learning is tricky for primary aged children.
[/quote]
Race to the bottom attitude

@SimonJT how did people in your company cope with the first lockdown? In normal times we have similar policies but all bets are off now

@SimonJT that sounds hard. Can I ask what you and your team did during the period in March when all schools were shut if "Childcare while working is strictly banned and ignoring this results in a disciplinary."

For every man saying their employer won't allow flexibility, there are plenty saying they have men in their team who never even asked.

[quote tappitytaptap]@SimonJT how did people in your company cope with the first lockdown? In normal times we have similar policies but all bets are off now[/quote]
It's actually in my contract that I cannot work from home with children present, they turned a blind eye last time, but once they decide to clear the decks we are all potentially fcuked

@HancocksSexTears in what way?

So you don't have any actual solution?

@HancocksSexTears in what way?

So you don't have any actual solution?

@HancocksSexTears "It's actually in my contract that I cannot work from home with children present, they turned a blind eye last time, but once they decide to clear the decks we are all potentially fcuked"

Which sort of proves my point that it's better for all schools to be closed so they have no choice but to treat everyone equally and turn a blind eye like last time.

@HancocksSexTears "Here we have a typical man basher"

Oh for goodness sake 🤨

[quote cloudchaos]@HancocksSexTears in what way?

So you don't have any actual solution?[/quote]
No solutions here for my predicament, no magical vulnerable s I can wheel out to babysit (and infect), no mo et for a nanny (all goes in a roof over the head and hills), no school open (and one who failed us badly last time), and a full time job with a husband who works outside the home and is critical but I'm lucky enough to ha e a school that only allow two critical workers a place - it's a wonderful life

My DH’s employer does try to allow flexibility, as does mine, and it is still hellishly hard for us both to do our jobs and homeschool/care for children who are too young to be left to get on with it alone. Flexibility only goes so far when the work still needs doing.