SCHOOLS: How could we do it better??

[SnowGnome]

The debate on schools reopening is getting pretty heated, we know two clear and opposing considerations.

1. School is the best place for children to be

2. Not closing schools will accelerate spread, putting families and staff at risk of short term illness, long term illness and death. It also means that tens of thousands will see bubbles closing with cases in Tier 4 areas anyway, removing all provision for key-worker and vulnerable children.

Neither of these considerations is really up for debate, they’re both obvious. The fury seems to be over whether one is more important than the other. But surely that’s the wrong question to be asking and both points matter.

The problem is that the solutions proposed are equally divided: close schools or don’t close them

There have to be better solutions, so what are your ideas, and how would other people’s suggestions affect you? We all really seem to want the same thing here which is as much time in school as possible, but without risking spread. I’ll put a couple of suggestions in next post.

If you’ve come on here to say “it doesn’t spread in schools, children don’t get ill from it, we never had any in our bubble last term blah blah” this isn’t the thread for you. Find somewhere else. This thread is about trying to find a better way through, not being dogmatically tied to one of two completely incompatible points of view.

@Phlip - tinkering with dates is going to get us nowhere. Logistically nightmarish, entirely reliant on "things being sorted out" by the spring (clue, they won't be this is endemic now and we will all have to adjust) and as a parent the thought of kids having to have a "lockdown holiday" now and work and sit exams all summer when there might be a glimmer of potential freedom, fills me with despair. Ditto all children, ditto all teachers.

Anyway, schools need to be open for children and young people's wellbeing, mental health, keeping kids fed (what a fucking tragedy that this should be true) and safe, as well as learning. But to be open they need to be safe and therefore the mitigations need to be resourced .

*I think the idea of shifting terms is a good one but is very unpopular with parents and teachers.

The summer break could be cut to three weeks and Easter to one week. That alone would give breathing space if those weeks were brought forward to January.*

Very tricky for teachers with term time only childcare planned a year in advance. I don’t know a single teacher who can afford to pay for 51 weeks ft nursery, given that our salary is for 39 weeks but averaged out over a year.

An extra three weeks in the summer would cost me c£800, if I could find a place logistically that allows us to drop off and make it to work on time....

We cannot have schools both safe and open.

We could change term dates. It wouldn't make anyone happy, but it also wouldn't make anyone sick and it would sort out some of the issue of missing education.

September to September is not immovable. Exams are not immovable. Hell, extending how long students have to spend in school isn't unchangeable - it's not so long ago that kids could leave education at 16. We've dealt with changes of school presence/absence at a lot shorter notice than 7 months over the course of this pandemic.

Six weeks school free now would save tens of thousands of lives. I think that's worth more than having my summer holidays in summer.

Refunding holidays is also not impossible.

@CakeQueen87

Smaller bubbles. My daughters primary school is two form entry and both classes are in the same bubble of 60 plus students. This seems completely unnecessary. The bubble should be just the one class of 30 students. I think it was managed well when they went back in June. At our school all year groups were invited back. 15 students at a time for 2 days a week with a Wednesday used for deep cleaning. I would support something like this again.

This depends on school layouts partially too though.

We are a three form Intake and our reception classes are classed as one bubble - 90 children plus the staff. The rooms are of an open plan nature with open doorways, etc. We can't suddenly fork out a ton of money to add new doors.

We are an overcrowded, old Victorian building and there are many punch points. In key stage 1 we are using class bubbles for when it comes to isolation but the reality is that there are 90 children sharing the playground area at any one time, 270 throughout each session. We have 90 children sharing each toilet block.

But this simply isn't something we can change m and certainly without any major funding.

Looking at the trend of number of cases (51k reported /not specimen!/ today btw) I really think that school closures are the only way to go now. They have left if too long and now there will be no other sane option. This obv, doesn't mean gov will do this...

Why do kids going to A-levels have to sit GCSE? Does anyone ask for GCSE results when you have A-levels? (non-brit here, sorry if it's a stupid q)

Yes, looking at today's figures, I think something drastic has to be done. I desperately don't want to close. But I think it's inevitable now. I can't believe how bad things have suddenly got. When I left school on 11th Dec I was planning a more or less normal school term. I even had dual plans in place for live streamed productions and productions with smaller live audiences!! Seems unimaginable now.

I feel bad for the North of England though. They had to carry on through hell and now it's calmed down for them, they'll likely be asked to close.

I'd still rather move the term than do it online.

Thesunisstillshining We only do narrow, limited A levels so yes, employers still want to know about GCSEs for other subjects.
For example, I have A Level English so my GCSE English is irrelevant. But I didn't take A Level Maths and I'm a teacher so it was important that I had a good GCSE Maths grade. Does that make sense?

@manicinsomniac
yup, makes sense.
Q: if kids have to select Alevel subjects prior to gcse (how much prior?) wouldn't it be easier to drop them from gcse?
If kid selects=math, but ends up not doing A-levels for some reason, there is always a chance to do it as a separate thing, right?
And I'm guessing most kids who sign up for a subject at A level actually end up taking the test?

Just for background: my son goes to a private school, will do gcse next year. He will do A levels in english, math, physics and history as a minimum. I really don't see the point of him doing gcses. And with all the disruption I am seeing it a lot less...

It's move it to when, though? It won't be "safe" to kick start again in 6 weeks. Covid is going to be endemic (according to WHO, so no shrieking of scaremongering). Schools need to change, not just dates. As do attitudes towards education.

I think they should ditch GCSEs this year and next (tbh for good they simply perpetuate inequality in the best of times) and work on a good education being provided and supported progression routes.

TBH the thought of these young people having the pressure piled on them to teach themselves their GCSEs, be judged in their outcomes against preceding years, having gone through an international trauma, - and then not even to get a summer holiday before the next inevitable winter shit show, and in the knowledge that their futures are economically entirely fucked, seems brutal to me.

Anyway these kids, their mental health, wellbeing, ability to thrive, and their political opinion will massively affect us all in not so many years so I really think their best interests need to be bumped up the priority list.

Thesunisstillshing That woukd work in theory for very academic children. But you need a certain GCSE grade to qualify for the A Level so some children change A Levels after receiving GCSE results. I also don't know how much pressure it would take off the system as everyone would still need the rest of their GCSEs and children who aren't doing A Levels need all of them. But yes, maybe restructuring exams could be looked at, I don't know.

Refunding holidays is also not impossible

Considering the government won’t even pay schools for soap or sanitiser, I can’t see them refunding staff holidays

The barriers to changing term dates are all bureaucratic, rather than physical barriers, such as a lack of staff or space, though.

Next suggestion, sorry if someone else has already made it: Move SEN school's teachers and students way up the priority list. They are the least able to distance and the most needing to stay open.

Sorry, meant to say staff rather than teachers.

I've been teaching in FE. We've timetabled so students see only 1 teacher per day that they are in. All my lessons are live and they choose whether to attend in person or log in from home. This can be because of SI, CEV, anxiety, lack of ICT or just because they like coming in.

Students have been great at doing this and very self aware. Some come in because they like the social learning, some stay at home because they get more done that way, some mix it up depending upon the teacher, subject or how their MH is.

Teaching by both methods simultaneously is bloody exhausting and has needed a major rethink in pedagogy and lots of new pots (I am not a great user of pots usually) but it has worked brilliantly for most.

I teach across levels 1 to 3 and usually have about 75% stay at home unless pracs being done.

Registers are taken, lessons start on time according to timetable and we chase lateness and non-attendance.

I have got through curriculum faster and with fewer behaviour problems and low level disruption. Having the weaker few in has allowed more focused support for them.

Would love this rolled out into all middle school and up. So far no teaching time has been lost due to Covid in my department. Result.

@Timeturnerplease unfortunately changing term dates doesn't help pupils in Years 11 or 13 who have exams in June? Taking 3 weeks from the summer holidays won't make any difference to them as they will have already left school / potentially gone to a different 6 form college / university or work.

You could take a week out of Easter but that won't make up for the time already missed let alone any future school closures.

@wantmorenow

I've been teaching in FE. We've timetabled so students see only 1 teacher per day that they are in. All my lessons are live and they choose whether to attend in person or log in from home. This can be because of SI, CEV, anxiety, lack of ICT or just because they like coming in.

Students have been great at doing this and very self aware. Some come in because they like the social learning, some stay at home because they get more done that way, some mix it up depending upon the teacher, subject or how their MH is.

Teaching by both methods simultaneously is bloody exhausting and has needed a major rethink in pedagogy and lots of new pots (I am not a great user of pots usually) but it has worked brilliantly for most.

I teach across levels 1 to 3 and usually have about 75% stay at home unless pracs being done.

Registers are taken, lessons start on time according to timetable and we chase lateness and non-attendance.

I have got through curriculum faster and with fewer behaviour problems and low level disruption. Having the weaker few in has allowed more focused support for them.

Would love this rolled out into all middle school and up. So far no teaching time has been lost due to Covid in my department. Result.

That sounds marvellous.

@Bayleaf25 Exactly, and another reason why shifting term dates won’t help. This is why I’m arguing for mitigations NOW, but until schools actually get some funding and support there will continue to be constant interruptions and loss of learning under the guise of ‘education’.

@Timeturnerplease I'm in total agreement, let's just hope the government finally come up with a sensible plan and support for pupils and teachers rather than a blanket school closure.

allherecomesthsun

It has been marvellous, eventually. Management tried to manage it to begin with as did we as classroom teachers. Rotas, seating plans, all on line then all in. It kind if grew into its current form accidentally in the end, students just didn't come in if they had vulnerable or anxious parents, plus if they. Needed to SI they couldn't come in. The First few weeks of September saw me driving an hour into work to sit in an empty room to learners at home. Totally pointless.

Think what we're doing now is perfect and completely learner led. I'm available in person or online or a mix of both. Took some getting used to but would love to see this as the norm going forward.

Lol. I'm. Changing employer January though so who knows now. I was burnt out so moved to a part time role. Teaching with so little control and planning has been the end of full time for me for now. I couldn't handle the exhaustion.

@manicinsomniac
My thinking is driven by having a very academic kid who won't have the option to drop the base subjects (both school and parental pressure), so I have no idea how it works in reality here.

Where I come from it's 6 mandatory subjects and 2 selected at 18. That's it. And it counts towards uni application - points are calculated based partially on the outcome. Employers don't really ask for it.

Those suggesting moving dates so school staff have nothing to look forward to after what will be a year and a half of Covid restrictions, please stop. I haven't even been able to get to the seaside since July due to constantly being in and out of lockdown (Welsh border). If that happens I will go off long term sick and I won't be coming back. I am having a break from this shit in the summer.

Oh and you're having a laugh if you think holidays will be refunded. We can't even afford sodding books.

@SaltyAF

Those suggesting moving dates so school staff have nothing to look forward to after what will be a year and a half of Covid restrictions, please stop. I haven't even been able to get to the seaside since July due to constantly being in and out of lockdown (Welsh border). If that happens I will go off long term sick and I won't be coming back. I am having a break from this shit in the summer.

I’ve seen some ridiculous things but the idea that teachers can’t possibly compromise on their holiday dates in a pandemic is the most ridiculous. My relative has worked with covid patients for 70 hours a week since March, all of her planned holiday dates were cancelled and she was told to work Christmas Day too. Imagine if her and her colleagues decide to all go long term sick because they’re tantruming about not going to the flipping seaside ffs. Get some perspective.

Everyone else's mental health matters except teachers, is that it?
Where I work we have already had a week of holidays moved at the will of the government to another time of year (ie we haven't had it back yet). We are subject to endless speculation about when and where we will be working. Many others throughout this pandemic are experiencing similar I have no doubt - personally though I support other workers and don't wish for a race to the bottom.